| ▲ | bananaflag 2 days ago |
| > Similar logic applies to every industry and every job. And it comes to the conclusion that we won’t have enough people for all the jobs that need to be done. In the (extremely) short run, yes. In the long run, those jobs will also be done by AI. It's like chimpanzees seeing human society and saying "look how complex it is, imagine how many chimpanzees it needs to maintain it". |
|
| ▲ | robotpepi 2 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| > In the (extremely) short run, yes. In the long run, those jobs will also be done by AI. Let's be honest: we don't know. Maybe you're right, but for the moment it's more likely that you're not. And countries cannot bet on that vague intuition at the cost of destroying their research communities and world leadership (which takes decades if not a century to achieve). |
| |
| ▲ | bananaflag 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I don't think research communities should be destroyed. Best case, they still matter. Worst case, AI kills us all and it's irrelevant that we "wasted" money on research. |
|
|
| ▲ | DataDive 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Chimanzee vs Human is not an appropriate analogy. First, because they cannot communicate properly. A better analogy: look at all these highly trained engineers, mathematicians, doctors, writers, philosophers, writers, scientists. How many dumbass politicians do we need to keep it all running smoothly? Turns out no matter how dumb politicians were, overall society has been developing positively over the history of mankind. |
|
| ▲ | sm0rad 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Math proofs are special because they’re verifiable, safe, and do not require physical experiments. You can perform exhaustive parallel search in simulation with RLVR. Do you think this applies to say, surgery, as well? There are few useful problems that share these properties. |
| |
| ▲ | password54321 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Do you think surgeons start performing surgery for the first time on people? | | |
| ▲ | airstrike a day ago | parent [-] | | Sounds like you're saying that so long as the LLM with robot arms starts by operating on mice, cows and pigs you're fine with it | | |
| |
| ▲ | cma 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not all of it would translate, but robotic surgery could be done on anesthetized animals in a mass RLVR way. | | |
| ▲ | sm0rad 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | This is wrong, both morally and technically. First off, I can’t imagine anything more torment nexus-y than throwing billions to automate and scale the torture of animals. If each token is a “cut”, how much suffering does 10 trillion training tokens (lower bound) corresponds to? Second, this still doesn’t cover all the properties that make math proofs doable. It requires working in the physical world. You must physically capture or grow 10T cuts worth of animals. You cannot verify success so easily, either. Cancer cells, for example, could regrow over months. You would need to keep the animal alive and regularly test the animal, which would be difficult to scale. And most people wouldn’t trust the world’s greatest vet to operate on them, anyways. | | |
| ▲ | cma 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I'm not advocating for it, I don't know enough. But we already slaughter lots of animals and raise them in horrible conditions, and all robot assisted surgery already goes through animal trials. > Second, this still doesn’t cover all the properties that make math proofs doable. It requires working in the physical world. You must physically capture or grow 10T cuts worth of animals. It would likely be sim2real with that as the post training, reducing that requirement a lot. > Cancer cells, for example, could regrow over months. In that specific scenario you would likely train on receiving no unrelated injuries during the surgery, and have induced conditions with stuff tagged molecularly that you can then verify efficacy from without waiting months. Depending on how much more data efficient sim2real makes it, you could end up seeing companies pushing it only for actual procedures the animals need but economically would never get; botched surgery and the animal gets euthanized before waking up, which they could argue was already going to happen. > And most people wouldn’t trust the world’s greatest vet to operate on them, anyways. Robotic surgery systems, already go through animal trials before being used on humans. So do many purely human surgery techniques. |
| |
| ▲ | jebarker 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > robotic surgery could be done on anesthetized animals in a mass RLVR way. well that's an awful image |
|
|
|
| ▲ | vrganj 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| But we're not building an AI society - to what end? We're building tools to serve the human society. |
| |
| ▲ | dgellow 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | A few people with way to much power are building AI to achieve their utopian, sci-fi dream. A few other powerful people are using that first group to achieve their post-democratic goals. It’s the most obvious top down attempt at imposing their vision onto the rest of the world. They aren’t building tools to serve anyone else than themselves | | |
| ▲ | aeve890 2 days ago | parent [-] | | >A few people with way to much power are building AI to achieve their utopian, sci-fi dream. You mean dystopian. If it were a utopia everyone would be happy to welcome the new world order. | | |
| ▲ | dgellow 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | No, I mean utopia. For them. A dystopia is what we will all experience, when the utopia they are pitching fails to materialize. I’m using the traditional, correct definition of the term, where a dystopia is a utopia that failed to achieve a paradise for the people and instead becomes hell | |
| ▲ | derpyzza 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | utopian for them, dystopian for us |
|
| |
| ▲ | 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
|
