Any verdict for "historic"?

andsoitis 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Both occur, but "a historic" is standard choice in modern English.

Since most speakers pronounce the h, it takes "a" not "an".

Contrast to "an hour", where the h is silent.

	▲	tmtvl 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		And for 'herb' it depends on which dialect of English you speak.

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layer8 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Both are being used and neither is incorrect. “An historic” used to be more prevalent in British English until around 1990, but “a historic” has become the standard choice now: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=a+historic%2Ca...

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beaned 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It depends on if you're speaking British or American English.

The British pronounce it as "istory," so they use "an" before.

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dofm 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> The British pronounce it as "istory," so they use "an" before.

"The British" aren't monolithic and neither are our approaches to this.

I certainly don't say "it is an historic day" or "staying at an hotel" with the soft H, because to me, in the 21st century, it's an upper class affectation (I am from a middle class background and from the commuter belt 30 miles south of London).

I moved to a slightly posher place and I know people who do say "an historic day" (soft H) still but it's largely out of habit/age/schooling.

The BBC have stopped doing this, as a rule. The monarchy have moderated this aspect of their speech too — I am sure I remember the younger Prince Charles say "an historic day" with the soft H, but I am fairly sure he would now say "a historic day" with the hard H; he has been trying to progressively moderate his RP accent for the last 25 years or so.

ETA: clarification in reply to reply

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beaned 7 hours ago | parent [-]

My point is that it's based on pronunciation. I didn't mean to offend you.

	▲	dofm 7 hours ago \| parent [-]
		No offence taken — I just mean to clarify that the proportion of British speakers who do this an-then-soft-H thing is actually pretty small. Having said that, there are two constituencies that do it, I guess: - Those who do it out of upper class background or affectation: using the French soft H that survives in the American pronunciation of 'herbs' is a class signifier. - And those who do it out of broader dropped-H slackness; it's not out of the question that someone would say "it's an 'istoric day" run together, in a variety of regional and rural accents. So if you meant the latter, then, yes! Probably more people do it as a result of dropping H more generally than out of upper class identification. But in the middle of those two, most of us, I think, use the hard H, and certainly "BBC English" has moved in that direction.

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Planktonne 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The majority of British accents would pronounce the 'h'.

	▲	fsckboy an hour ago \| parent [-]
		but not, apparently, the haitch

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AnimalMuppet 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have seen an American book, published in the 1960s, whose title included "An Historical Survey".

For me, on this one, if there's an "an", it pushes me to not pronounce the "h" in the next word, even though I consider it silly to pronounce "historical" that way.

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echelon 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't think so. This one seems to defy the rule.

"A his-toric day"

"An his-toric day"

Both seem to work correctly with American pronunciation.

Journalists and films seem to use "an historic" with an American accent, which breaks the rule but still feels correct.

For most words the indefinite article is clear. This one feels weird.

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kelnos 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> This one seems to defy the rule.

No it doesn't. If I pronounce the "h", then using "an" sounds weird. If I don't, then "a" sounds weird.

> Journalists and films seem to use "an historic" with an American accent

Curious if you have a link to a video of this, I can't imagine it sounding correct.

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Rendello 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I didn't know about "an historic" until I heard it from American journalists. They did pronounce the 'h' and it did indeed sound very wrong. I believe I first heard it from Rachel Maddow. I can't find any clips, but there are a bunch of transcripts from her show if you search up:

> Rachel Maddow "an historic day"

For example:

- https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna47356492

- https://www.ms.now/transcript/2013-11-21-msna738766

	▲	beaned 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It's one of those things American pseudo intellectuals do because they think it's more correct and want to sound superior. Maybe they heard a professor say it that way or read it in a book. Anything but actually process why the a/an distinction exists.

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beaned 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They do, but only because it's been adopted from British media and literature. You might even say it's a symptom of being over-read, if that's possible.

"An historic" is certainly used in the US, but it's wrong in all contexts.

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drnick1 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

An would always be wrong here, in the U.S. at least.

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Narishma 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Depends on whether or not you pronounce the H.

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7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[deleted]