| ▲ | StilesCrisis 5 hours ago |
| Hard forking doesn't solve the problem of closed source. If the goal of a hard fork is "the community will invest equal resources that Google does today" then you wildly underestimate how many engineers work on Chrome. |
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| ▲ | floxy 41 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| >wildly underestimate how many engineers work on Chrome. It is completely insane how many people work on Chrome. It seems like it is time to deprecate web browsers and do something different. Like you get a frame-buffer to draw on with something like a wasm vm. Web pages get replaced by programs (which they essentially are anyway). Get rid of 99.9% of the cruft that has accumulated over the decades in browsers. If you want to have some of that cruft, that is a library you have to send. |
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| ▲ | kjs3 18 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Or go the other way and make web pages not programs at all, like they originally were. Unfortunately, just communicating information isn't cool, doesn't monetize, and certainly doesn't get clicks. |
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| ▲ | seb1204 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Not denying than many engineers work on Chrome just wondering how many of them work on Chrome features that are anti pattern, reducing privacy, improving information collection or tracking or against users interest in broad. |
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| ▲ | ocdtrekkie 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The bigger problem is wasting developer effort contributing to Google's platform. The real secret behind Android being "open" (sorta) is that while almost nobody runs AOSP, Google has tricked a bunch of fools into working on Android forks instead of building a real competitor. Playing at their table is a losing game, the house always wins. |
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| ▲ | mitxela an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Windows only isn't still 90% market share because of Wine, then Proton. | | |
| ▲ | ocdtrekkie an hour ago | parent [-] | | Neither Wine nor Proton run on Windows. Building Android emulators for Linux: Worth your time. Building Android knockoffs which claim to remove the Google from Google's operating system? Foolishness. | | |
| ▲ | xmprt 27 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Valve is working on supporting apks for their new VR operating system. If this goes anything like Proton then I'm hopeful for the future of Android without Google. | |
| ▲ | mitxela 42 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | ReactOS was also a good idea. |
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| ▲ | charcircuit an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | The developer effort is not wasted because it's open source. Anyone can fork it at any time. None of it can be thrown away from humanity, wasting it. The reason why no one runs AOSP is because the phone market rewards differentiation. Each phone manufacture wants to build their own experience and building on top of AOSP is how they do so. Is it really a losing game? Building a new OS from scratch is not worth it. Why throw away an entire app catalog for your device? Consumers want access to existing app catalogs when buying a phone. If anything is a losing game it's building a new mobile operating system over forking Android as a base. | | |
| ▲ | fragmede 38 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | It wasn't worth it, but it's 2026, not 1991, when Linus first released Linux. AI can shit out a new OS, given enough tokens, and a VM/compatibility layer would let you run Android apps until native ports became available. The question is why would you want to do that? Computers are vastly more capable than they were when the Linux kernel was originally designed, and the needs of programs and their permissions have changed as well. https://xkcd.com/1200/ While throwing away all the learnings and starting from scratch are usually not justified, sometimes it is the right choice, if enough things have changed. Should GPS location, fine grained or coarse, and related permissions, be a part of the OS kernel or a user space daemon that other processes can query or some other thing? That wasn't a question when Linux was created but should be a core consideration for a replacement system that was created today, along with a myriad of other modern day questions that didn't exist back then. I don't think it's a loosing game, and I don't have the resources to make one myself, but I do think that the world's materially changed enough to justify building a new one from scratch. AI generating code changes the game significantly, though there are issues with that. A new OS would have taken several millions and multiple teams, but can now be done for far less. The problem is hardware to run it on. Who'd pay $2,000 for a shittier phone with less features when a $500 used one with GrapheneOS is right there? So the market, (in)efficiently, hasn't come up with a new phone OS. Not because it isn't warranted, but because the free market isn't a perfect system. | |
| ▲ | fragmede 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It wasn't worth it, but it's 2026, not 1991, when Linus first released Linux. AI can shit out a new OS, given enough tokens, and a VM/compatibility layer would let you run Android apps until native ports became available. The question is why would you want to do that? Computers are vastly more capable than they were when the Linux kernel was originally designed, and the needs of programs and their permissions have changed as well. https://xkcd.com/1200/ While throwing away all the learnings and starting from scratch are usually not justified, sometimes it is the right choice, if enough things have changed. Should GPS location, fine grained or coarse, and related permissions, be a part of the OS kernel or a user space daemon that other processes can query or some other thing? That wasn't a question when Linux was created but should be a core consideration for a replacement system that was created today, along with a myriad of other modern day questions that didn't exist back then. I don't think it's a loosing game, and I don't have the resources to make one myself, but I do think that the world's materially changed enough to justify it. | |
| ▲ | ocdtrekkie an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you are not working to destroy Android, you are supporting it. You might feel happy about your custom ROM nonsense and how it protects your privacy, but that just means you're selfish, because nearly everyone will still be trapped on Google's version. Technologists need to aggressively reject solutions which don't spread freedom to ordinary users as well. |
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| ▲ | Forgeties79 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| But the open source project wouldn’t need to invest as much as Google does. There are all kinds of features and things they are working on that the general public really does not care about. |
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| ▲ | paulryanrogers 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > But the open source project wouldn’t need to invest as much as Google does. Not at first. Yet over time the work increases as one must differ more and more from Chrome. I believe that's why so many forks are giving up on Manifest V2. | | |
| ▲ | charcircuit an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Forks are giving up on mv2 because it's not as important as the people online say it is. If mv2 was what would cause a browser to gain market share they would keep maintaining it, but if the market is not rewarding browsers with mv2 then it does not make sense to maintain. | | |
| ▲ | armadyl 4 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Seriously. The average person in real life has no idea what MV2 or MV3 is. And despite what people here would have you believe uBlock Origin Lite works nearly as good as uBO and is generally indistinguishable from its MV2 counterpart. A casual user wold not be able to tell the difference, nor do they care. |
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| ▲ | Forgeties79 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Differentiating isn’t as important as not engaging in Google‘s heinous practices |
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| ▲ | StilesCrisis 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | redeeman 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| but perhaps we dont need several gigabytes compressed code to have a browser. perhaps what google have been doing is an utter abomination? |
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| ▲ | atomicnumber3 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is cool until Google doesn't load in your free browser. | | |
| ▲ | bossyTeacher 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Then, you use this: https://duckduckgo.com/ Actually, use it now. | | | |
| ▲ | takeda 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Actually it is still cool if they don't. Because of their enshitification we do have alternatives that were developed. At this point the their only services I'm using are Maps, Translate and Keep Notes and it is mostly due to lazyiness as all of those already have alternatives. Edit: forgot about YouTube, which is ironic, because that one is a toughest one because the value comes from creators, but I'm doing my part and using GrayJay[1] so I can follow them if they switch their platform. [1] https://grayjay.app/ |
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