| ▲ | BigTTYGothGF 3 hours ago |
| There's a lot of people in this thread who see "North Korea" and "nuclear test" and get fired up but would otherwise shrug if it were instead, say, "Oklahoma" and "fracking". The supplemental information is available and says:
> Our earthquake catalog consists primarily of small events with magnitudes of < 2.0
and there were 1399 of them. The cited Ren&al says:
> The magnitudes of these seismic events primarily range from 1.5 to 2.5
and that there were 647 of them. USGS (https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/earthquake-and-energy-comp...) says that a magnitude 2.0 earthquake is the equivalent energy of 56kg of explosives, which is more than I'd want to be around but I think for people who actually use the stuff it's not a lot. |
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| ▲ | asdff an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| This threw me into a rabbit hole for a bit. Apparently there is good evidence that a lot of historical earthquakes in california were due in part at least to the oil industry, which early on would not replace pumped out oil with water. Now a days they claim they replace the oil with water and all is well. However, as anyone who has owned an ancient used car and has switched from conventional to synthetic motor oil would tell you, there's no way that would work. The assumption is that these voids the oil are in are these hermetically sealed vaults such that one can simply pump in more volume of liquid and balance out pressures. That seems like a big assumption to me. Water is obviously not nearly so viscous as crude oil. It will seep in situations where crude will not. It's probably leaking out like a sieve if its really choss all the way down in California. The oil as it is isn't even very well contained given how common tar seeps are. Agriculture probably also plays a role. Central valley has sunken what is it 20-25 feet now from historic ground levels? Same issue as a void generated by an atomic test or oil extraction, one would imagine. Mining probably also plays a decent role. Really anything involving removal or non like for like replacement of structural substrate from the ground is probably liable to be associated with seismic activity. Kind of depressing a realization if this is the case, like we've screwed ourselves with not just the air but the ground we stand on too. You can't really get that stability back without all this new potential energy leaving the system in the form of stuff falling down and new quakes and plates breaking loose and budging a bit more. |
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| ▲ | antonvs 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > Mining probably also plays a decent role. In the Johannesburg area in South Africa, gold mining has produced up to half of all gold ever extracted in the world, with mines reaching depths of 4000m. This has resulted in frequent seismic events, in the 2.0 to 3.0 range on the Richter scale, occurring on a daily or weekly basis, more occasionally reaching 5.0. This started around 1906 and still continues today. See: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S167477551... | |
| ▲ | Melatonic an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What kind of earthquakes in California ? | |
| ▲ | s5300 33 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | pjc50 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| When gas extraction caused earthquakes in Groenignen, this site was very clear on prioritizing fossil fuel extraction over a few small tremors. |
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| ▲ | asdff an hour ago | parent [-] | | What's a little permanent undermining of unknown scope across wide swaths of developed area if it means a decade or two of profitability over the working life of the well? I mean have you even considered the shareholders interests? |
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| ▲ | loeg an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's simple, really. Fracking has offsetting pro-social benefits in a way that NK possessing nuclear weapons does not. |
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| ▲ | FireHorseAutumn 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | It's worse than people think. The fact that North Korea-traditionally nuttier than all the Middle Eastern governments combined-gets mean Hollywood movies made about them while Saddam, Gaddafi, and Assad got regime changed sent a certain kind of message, you know? Not to mention, the Iranians, Syrians, Pakistanis, et all could have never got off the ground without massive North Korean help. I'm saying this as someone who is on the whole deeply cynical about Boomer pearl clutching when it comes to atomic proliferation. | |
| ▲ | antonvs 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | “Pro-social” is a strange way to describe something that’s actively contributing to the death of our civilization. | | |
| ▲ | ch4s3 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Looked at another way, shale natural gas has largely displaced coal which emits more CO2 and can be burned in the same power plants. This base load allows for more wind and solar. Natural gas is a great bridge fuel. | | |
| ▲ | loeg 11 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > and can be burned in the same power plants I don't believe nat gas is burned in the same plants as coal. | | |
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| ▲ | loeg 12 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is some rhetorical thing people say, but you don't actually believe it, right? You're not that wildly delusional? You think that if the air is 4C warmer, we won't have laws, people, culture, or whatever else makes a civilization? And that in the mean time, people being able to heat their homes in winter and not freeze to death, and otherwise afford electricity, are not offsetting pro-social benefits? |
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| ▲ | FireHorseAutumn 19 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Fracking doesn't result in potential nuclear fallout or the likes of Seoul or Tokyo being held hostage. |
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| ▲ | horsawlarway 6 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Sure - but the content and intent of the article is clearly about understanding the geographic conditions that lead to sustained seismic activity, when that's not what our models currently predict. And it's hardly like we're "super concerned about the tests because of the test itself" here... given we've triggered nearly 1000 underground nuclear blasts in the US alone, across several states (at least 6). So... yeah - a relatively unstable state gaining nuclear capabilities sucks, but the interesting part of the discussion in the article is why we're seeing activity years after the testing. | |
| ▲ | seinvak 6 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Well oil is definitely the reason countries like Iraq or Venezuela have been held hostage by America. |
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| ▲ | someguynamedq an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yes, and isn't it obvious why? |
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| ▲ | floralhangnail 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Oklahoma hasn't threatened to nuke anyone.....yet. |
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| ▲ | throe844949 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Oklahoma is part of US, and there were several threats! Just a few months ago against Iran! | |
| ▲ | mathgeek 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Technically, Oklahoma is on the short list of locations that _have_ detonated a nuclear bomb on their enemies in wartime. | |
| ▲ | NikolaNovak an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | (Not to be contrarian, but I rather thought usa has recently and repeatedly threatened to bomb and nuke countries into stone age... And in fact went significant way through that effort over last few months, to the tune of some $40bil or so, for no clear, consistent, rational, elucidated reason whatsoever. And of course, rather famously, is the only country that actually deployed nuclear weapons against other people). I don't necessarily disagree with your underlying point mind you, but USA isn't what it used to be internationally, if it ever truly was. "Oklahoma / USA are peaceful, predictable. rational political entities" is a rather laughable point to try to make today :-/ | |
| ▲ | tecleandor 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Not Oklahoma but Trump has made nuclear threats from Maryland this summer... | |
| ▲ | QuercusMax 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | But they did bomb their own people in the Tulsa Race Massacre | | |
| ▲ | nkingsy an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | nono the state is the only thing that counts. Not the country the state is in or the cities in the state. | |
| ▲ | kfkdmdndndn 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | phoghed 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | fresh account just for this bitchmade comment lmao. close call, I almost engaged with it earnestly |
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| ▲ | cranberryjoe 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
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| ▲ | throe844949 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Farts are way worse, it contains lethal methane that killed millions of people! |
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