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tripzilch 3 hours ago

What do you mean, it's already robbing me of the ability to discuss techniques with a number of my peers since they decided the mediocre output of LLMs is good enough instead of understanding what they are doing.

In addition, a great number of people have decided to stop publishing their code publicly, and discuss techniques except in spaces they can be sure it's a one-on-one with a human being.

Some things already got lost.

TeMPOraL 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's people problems though, namely:

1) Lazy peers, and

2) Spiteful peers with "dog in the manger" mentality.

The latter case personally irks me, mostly because this often involves personal benefit (economical or moral) due to them claiming to give away knowledge for altruistic reasons, which later behavior reveals was a lie, mislabeling proprietary as open and free, to reap unfair gains.

But that's all off-topic for this thread anyway.

gwbas1c 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Spiteful peers with "dog in the manger" mentality.

Last night my daughter told me her friend (a boy) signed up to take the last spot of a baking class at camp just to spite his sister, who wanted it.

Turns out he liked baking!

---

I think this whole discussion shows that there's a lot of Calvinball going on with IP, where the creator keeps trying to change the rules as a way to defend their power and social order.

3ash87 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Why don't you create something so that you, too, can join the evil class of creators that exploit OpenAI, Anthropic and SpaceX?

shimman 2 hours ago | parent [-]

This may blow your mind but people have different value systems than the single one where only making money matters in our incredibly short lives. Some people believe in things other than accumulating money and immiserating workers.

Your failure of imagination doesn't limit the actions people can take to shape society. We all have equal voices in that respect.

I truly feel sorry for those with your mindset. It speaks volumes on the lack of community and friends you have where you think fucking them over to make money is a worthy pursuit.

They use to banish greedy people from society in the before times, maybe we should start again as these people have no problem in destroying society for religious fanatical reasons. We shouldn't be accepting of them, especially when they're actively killing us all or making us miserable.

iu123 2 hours ago | parent [-]

You are preaching this is response to a comment that mocks the notion that creators are the evil people while OpenAI, Anthropic and SpaceX exploit them?

The comment was clearly satirical.

gwbas1c 18 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, one of the articles on HN a few days ago pointed out that a lot of the wealthy spend a lot of their time and energy preserving the social order. (It was a long article trying to predict what people will do when they don't need to work.)

To be quite blunt: I really don't think anyone who sells (or gives) IP to the general public has any right to control what happens to that IP after a fair period of time. That's why I say they're playing Calvinball: Changing the rules as they go for their benefit, so they can preserve the social order.

shimman 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Nah, some tech people really believe this. You need to get out of your bubble and realize a nontrivial percentage of tech workers are very anti-human.

shepardrtc 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

People creating free software for everyone to use, only to pull it away when suddenly there's a technology that can instantly let everyone use it at the drop of a hat, is not something I quite understand. If you're doing it so you show people, hey I made this, then you can still do that. If you're doing it to help the world, then that's very much happening. Of if you're doing it just for fun, that's possible too, though I totally understand how much less fun it is when AI can rip it out in a few minutes.

antihipocrat 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Some of it might be loss of external validation, no more stars in github. Some of it might be an aversion to a non-consensual contribution to the end of their chosen profession as a means to make a good living.

Much of it might be because their license (MIT, BSD etc) was ignored completely.

Retric 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

People have multiple motivations at the same time. Many OSS contributors have moved on after LLM’s and that’s completely consistent with their motivations.

Some of the major OSS licenses require attribution when someone copies the work in question, AI companies fail to do so. People getting annoyed when others break the social contract has nothing to do with any other motives they can always benefit the world by doing something else.

You may prefer someone continue maintaining infrastructure you use but they could be just as happy delivering food to the elderly. The desire for people to continue helping you is little more than entitlement here.

nz 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

People were always able to "instantly use it at the drop of a hat" (paraphrased). What people are objecting to, is instant use without any acknowledgement or attribution (the minimum courtesy). They also object to being mistreated by people who have never actually had to type characters of code into a text-editor, or figure out how to use a build-system and version-control-system. And finally, they object to having their _free_ and _generous_ labor turn millionaires into billionaires (and billionaires into trillionaires), while they themselves still have to pay that one mortgage they have, and medical bills, and tuition, and so on.

They object to the systematized devaluing of their work. They object to becoming a class of invisible laborers (who only become visible when there is need to blame someone).

latexr an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> is not something I quite understand

I can only speak for myself, but right now working on open-source is even more thankless and shitty. Now any douche-knuckle comes to your repo and starts spamming you with bad PRs or issues as if their favourite LLM du jour has some fantastical insight they have to share with you, when it has already been explained ad nauseam that what they want is out of scope, or isn’t technically possible, or has tradeoffs XYZ.

You had lazy people before, sure, but those interactions were less frequent, shorter, and for each person I used to craft a careful response that would explain everything in detail and teach those I interacted with. But why would I waste my time crafting a reply that the person on the other side is just going to shove into their LLM and learn nothing?

Regarding open-source, LLMs make people more disrespectful of the people doing the work. And if you’re sharing your expertise for free to be disrespected, why bother?

3ash87 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

latexr an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> That's people problems though

And the people make the culture. So, in effect, the culture suffered. I think you’re taking the original comment too literally with your “piracy is theft” comparison. Obviously you can’t literally rob culture¹, because culture is a concept. But you can lose something from it, and that loss can have a cause you can point to, so in a way elements of it can be “robbed”.

That’s what I get from the original comment when I steelman it, anyway.

¹ Sounds like the name of a Rob Zombie associate.

burningChrome 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>> In addition, a great number of people have decided to stop publishing their code publicly,

A lot of my peers who have been in tech for more than a decade are all doing this. They're effectively backing out of the industry. Their attitude now is they're ready for retirement in their 40's. They're only building and working on side projects and only sharing with people they know, nobody else.

One thing I'm seeing right now is the amount of institutional and domain knowledge being lost is a on a massive scale. The more startling fact is nobody seems to care - as if vibe coding and LLM's are going to fill this gap.

rpdillon 27 minutes ago | parent [-]

It's interesting to me that the actual motivations for releasing code open-source were very different than I had assumed for the past ~30 years. I always liked to give stuff away so folks could play with and try stuff. As far as I can tell, the only reason not to still give away code is the desire for credit, which was never all that interesting to me.

But then again, I haven't devoted my life to developing and releasing a huge open source project used by millions, so perhaps my opinion should be discounted accordingly.

nradov 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The majority of code has always been proprietary and never published. But there's also more open source code being published than ever before.

phoronixrly 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I still do open-source. You just get the code on a CD like the good old times!

6510 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> a great number of people have decided to stop publishing their code publicly

Stopped publishing anything and stopped creating anything.

But in all fairness this started long ago. I remember a conversation where I asked someone who read a niche blog every day why he never posted a comment. (the blog had zero comments) If you like what they wrote and have thoughts about it, why not "honor" them with a few words? How is that to much to ask? They clearly just never bothered to but in stead made up all kinds of excuses.

Imagine having to explain that you can respond if someone talks to you? If there was a culture surely it ended there?

IAmBroom 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You're discussing your peers' behaviors, not AI.

It's the same as saying "People don't kill people; guns do." Maybe guns(AI) should be regulated, but the primary problem is murderers(lazy peers), not weapons(AI).

FromTheFirstIn 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If this is your stance on guns, I’m not surprised by your calloused take on AI

ndsipa_pomu 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yet countries that have strong regulation of firearms have significantly less murders (and accidental shootings) than countries that don't regulate them.

That does suggest that along with murderers, the easy accessibility of firearms is a problem (assuming that the ratio of murderers in different populations is approximately the same).

malfist 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Just like with guns, AI is a crime of scope.

I can be a murderer with a knife, sure, but how many people can I kill? How many people can I kill if I have a class three license an a full auto gun?

I can pirate a news article here or there, sure, but how many news articles can I pirate? How many news articles can I pirate with AI?

TeMPOraL 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> How many news articles can I pirate with AI?

Not much more than with a bash/curl loop. Which, on one hand, AI can write for you, but on the other hand, AI will make you no longer need to pirate those articles in the first place.

Also it's not end-user piracy being discussed - it's the act of training AI itself that's accused here to be "robbery of our culture".