But it's copying...how is it theft? Your labour WASNT stolen was it?

Avicebron 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In a way their future labor was? If i recorded you 24/7, then went to your employer and told them I had masterfully trained a chimpanzee to perform your jpb, and it was good enough your employer considered getting rid of you. Would you consider me recording/copying whart you did theft in some way?

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cluckindan 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Even better question: would you be willing to train the AI-driven robot which will end your profession altogether?

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px43 6 hours ago | parent [-]

I work in infosec and I would give up everything I own and die happy if infosec became a solved problem and the profession died forever.

It's hard for me to imagine a profession that should exist in a utopian society. People should just be able to explore and build cool shit. People should have instant access to food when they're hungry and housing when the weather gets bad, and we could live in a society that does all that without having rent extraction baked into everything.

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tremon 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm not sure how to square

> It's hard for me to imagine a profession that should exist in a utopian society

with

> People should have instant access to food when they're hungry and housing when the weather gets bad

You don't think that farming, baking, and building are professions?

	▲	NekkoDroid 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I assume they mean that it is all already automated in the utopian society. And I would kinda agree that that would be utopian. But sadly we live in the real world where greed rules pretty much everything, meaning that it will remain an unobtainable dream for (most likely) ever.

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SkyBelow 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Do we normally consider recorded music to be theft from musicians who would have been paid to play music live if we never allowed (or invented) recorded music?

Normally this isn't the case for any technology except for the time it first comes around. AI is only different to use for two reasons. First, it is in our time. Second, it seems to be faster than any of the options before, so the shock is harder.

But in general, this is a website of people writing code. How many on here study how a person solves a problem and then trains the ultimate chimpanzee to do (at least part of) their job? Is building computer programs that automate what others did manually theft?

Consider the origin of the word "computer" itself, a mass theft of jobs that would have employed the whole world many many times over.

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max__dev 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Musicians are paid to record music. If they were not, as is the case for ai data, we would indeed consider it theft.

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Windchaser 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Musicians are paid to record music. If they were not, as is the case for ai data, we would indeed consider it theft.

I remember reading literature from the 1930s, and there were quite a few folks who thought that the musicians-doing-recordings were stealing from the old-timers who played for live audiences.

History does not exactly repeat itself, but it rhymes

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SkyBelow 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The few who get paid to record are replacing far more who would have otherwise been paid to play if that was the only way to listen to any music. Is it okay if one musician replaces another but not if a non-musician does so? The person getting replaced didn't get paid either way.

Going back to the previous example, say I pay a different coworker $50 for the data to train the chimpanzee and then use it to replace the first person. In either case they lost their jobs while receiving nothing for it. In either case, what happened to them is the same, so how would they be stolen from in one case and not in another?

	▲	max__dev 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Whether it is okay or not has no bearing on it being theft. And no need to create a hypothetical, this is exactly what happened to musicians. There is broad evidence that labs have used substantial amounts of pirated data, no need to reach for a new definition of theft.

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alex_smart 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For intellectual property, copying without permission is theft.

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aeon_ai 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Depending on the context, it’s fair use.

As it is, in this case.

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malfist 4 hours ago | parent [-]

It's as fair use as this scenario:

I can use 6 seconds of a movie in a clip as fair use so I cut an entire movie up into 6 second clips and play them all one after another for you.

	▲	aeon_ai 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		No, it’s been decided by the courts to be fair use. I’m not sure why people think they understand IP law better than the courts just because they don’t like the answer

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m4rtink 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Well, given these companies are trying to sell it back to you - seems like even worse than stealing. ;-)