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| ▲ | red369 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | ~$100,000 every 10 years is expensive, but I think even in a lot of countries with good public transport, there would be a large number of people who would consider paying $1,000 a month to be able to have a car if that was the only way to have one. It seems to me as though a lot families share a car quite widely too. Even in countries without an expensive on-road tax, people do often choose to pay more than $10,000 a year in depreciation cost, rather than the option of buying a car that has already gone through the early, rapid depreciation. People also choose to get a car loan, again increasing the cost. I'm fairly uninformed whether the interest on those is significant. Of course, the COE is in addition to depreciation and maintenance, and those are both also expensive in Singapore. Plus people buy the cars through loans. And, excluding everything I've said above, the cars themselves are very expensive to buy! As an example, a 2.0L e:HEV Honda Civic is US$195,000 including the COE, so approximately US$90,000 without it. Looking on the US Honda site, it looks like the same car is under US$33,000. There must some on-road taxes in the US, and difference in specs, but that's a big difference in price, in addition to the ~$100,000 COE. Even knowing they're expensive, there's something I still can't get over, seeing a 6-figure price across the windscreen of a base model (and knowing you don't get to take off any zeros when doing a currency conversion to what you're used to). | | |
| ▲ | shell0x 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | https://www.iras.gov.sg/taxes/individual-income-tax/basics-o... If you're well paid expat, it might not be the worst as well. You save so much on income tax in Singapore, but consumption is expensive. I'm sure for many Singapore still comes out ahead cost wise. | | |
| ▲ | seanmcdirmid 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | If you are an American, you have to start looking into the housing deduction to make your taxes work since the foreign tax credit doesn’t go very far in Singapore (and you need the FTC after the foreign earned income credit caps). | |
| ▲ | eru an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > You save so much on income tax in Singapore, but consumption is expensive. It depends on what you are consuming. Sins like driving, alcohol, smoking and gambling are expensive. But the daily essentials aren't all that expensive, especially eating out starts very low. |
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| ▲ | eru an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > People also choose to get a car loan, again increasing the cost. Sorry, could you please explain how car loans increase the cost? > Of course, the COE is in addition to depreciation and maintenance, and those are both also expensive in Singapore. Plus people buy the cars through loans. And, excluding everything I've said above, the cars themselves are very expensive to buy! In a sense, all these other costs don't really matter: if they increased (or dropped) by a dollar, in equilibrium the winning CoE bid would drop (respectively increase) by a dollar. |
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| ▲ | shell0x 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I said I never needed a car there :) I can get anywhere by cab in like < 30 mins so I never saw the need to have one. However there are plenty of ultra rich people living there and also many driving luxury cars. It's also a status symbol there(Credit card/Condo/Car). | | |
| ▲ | eru 44 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Condos are for the middle class. Landed property is the status symbol (but, alas, it doesn't start with a C.) Btw, the cab obviously need to bid for CoE as well. |
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| ▲ | thomasjoulin 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | in addition to all the other responses, owning a car in Singapore is also a status symbol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Cs_of_Singapore | |
| ▲ | fhe 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | despite the convenience of a well-run public transport system and uber-like services, the ease and freedom of owning your own transport is still hard to beat, and evidently worth the ~75k dollar COE. it removes the walk from bus/subway stations under the tropical/sun, humidity; and the wait (typically 5-10min) of waiting for your uber/taxi driver to showup and enduring the uber car smell (often heavily scented for some reason and triggers my allergic reaction) and someone else's music. and once you have children a car is almost a must. | | |
| ▲ | eru 41 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Yes. And the Uber-like services and traditional taxis also need to bid for CoE. I never had a problem with the driver's music in Singapore: usually they just play the bland local radio, or you can ask them to turn it off. Smell: sometimes a problem when you get a smoker. I guess some try to mask that with heavy scents? For me the worst is that the local taxi uncles tend to pump the gas pedal. That's nausea inducing. About the wait for the cab: usually you wait in the mall or at home etc, where you can have shelter from the sun and aircon. Having your own car is convenient, especially with kids, since you can keep stuff in the car. But having to find parking all the time is also annoying. |
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| ▲ | eru an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | One part: the people running the taxis and Grab also need to bid for slots. And if you have kids, being able to leave stuff in your car is pretty useful, so you might want to bid. Though I guess the main reason is: Singapore is rich, so that drives up the bidding. | |
| ▲ | shalmanese 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A lot of people get a car when they have kids as taking grab with a car seat can be unwieldy. Also, COE wasn’t always $100K, many people are still on legacy COE when it was $30-$50K | | |
| ▲ | shell0x 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That's a good call-out actually. I haven't thought of people with kids. | | |
| ▲ | zhivota an hour ago | parent [-] | | One note, taxis are exempt from car seat laws and you can book them on demand via grab or the taxi company apps. That's what we did, it's a slight risk but so is life. | | |
| ▲ | red369 an hour ago | parent [-] | | Are taxis exempt, but car-sharing like Grab not exempt? I have seen Grab drivers turn down taking a child without a car seat a few times. | | |
| ▲ | eru 39 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > Are taxis exempt, but car-sharing like Grab not exempt? Yes! |
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| ▲ | eru 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Also, COE wasn’t always $100K, many people are still on legacy COE when it was $30-$50K What vintage was that? | | |
| ▲ | delta_p_delta_x 19 minutes ago | parent [-] | | COE was around 30K in the first year of COVID. Not exceptionally long ago. We have a continental car we bought at the end of 2020 with a 41.5K COE; we paid less in total than what a base-model Corolla costs nowadays. | | |
| ▲ | eru 15 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Thanks for explaining. Covid was special. We also rented a shop house at the height of Covid (late 2020) and paid as much per square metre as we previously had paid for HDB. |
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| ▲ | normie3000 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Are car seats mandatory for children in taxis in Singapore? | | |
| ▲ | eru 40 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The rules differ between Grab (our local Uber-lookalike) and traditional taxis. They are less strict for the latter. | |
| ▲ | immawizard an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Only for the children you want to keep after car crash. | |
| ▲ | rossriley an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | For the official taxis they are not, but for ride hailing taxis like Grab/Gojek they are. |
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| ▲ | jimmydef 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The utility of a car in singapore is very different from other places. Yes, a car will get you faster from point A to point B in singapore when compared to public transport. But you can get a private hire car or a taxi which is just as fast and is probably much more convenient. For many people in Singapore, a car's real utility is to signal status. More often than not, this status gets you real-life benefits. Such as increased dating success. | | |
| ▲ | fhe 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | interestingly enough though, car ownership, and even having a driver's license is increasingly less common among the young. | | |
| ▲ | jimmydef 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, because when adjusted to car ownership costs, the young have a lower purchasing power when compared to the older generation at the same age back then. | | |
| ▲ | eru 38 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I'm not sure that's a good lens to look through: the total number of cars in Singapore is fixed, and ownership cost adjusts (via the CoE auction) to balance supply and demand. So there's no drop in total car ownership to explain: that one is held fixed. What we'd need to explain is why comparatively more older people and fewer younger people drive. |
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| ▲ | jnaina an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | For Singapore's boomers, success once meant the 5 Cs: cash, car, credit card, condominium and country club. For today's young Singaporeans, these no longer define success. |
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| ▲ | itemize123 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | it's easy to want one |
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