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BadBadJellyBean a day ago

I feel this post. I am tired of "directing" agents when in reality it feels more like trying to herd a group of toddlers.

Sure they can mostly write better code than a toddler but this constant nudging and reminding and reiterating and stopping them from using the token budget of the whole company for a one off script. It gets tiring and I feel like I am losing brain power while doing it. Maybe it's faster but explosive diarrhea is also a faster way to produce shit.

chasd00 a day ago | parent | next [-]

> Maybe it's faster but explosive diarrhea is also a faster way to produce shit.

i'm in the midst of a very large global roll out of a new system including about 24 separate erp integrations. My team's system is dependent on another system coming online first then we go then the integrations come online then a massive data migration happens and ends with all the associated testing. So like a huge number of dependencies and I'm second in line. Today we get word that the first system is having issues with a vendor and will not come online as scheduled (our dry run deployment is tomorrow and spans all next week as each dependency gets their turn. Week after next is PROD.

We're not heavily integrated into that first system but we are in spots and so there's a reason why they go first. Writing around that system is feasible but we're looking around 5k lines which isn't a lot but there's still testing and sign off. My offshore team is in bed, meanwhile they, and onshore, all have other shit to do anyway so pulling them just puts everything else behind.

I tasked an agents to make the changes as soon as i woke up to the news, they got it mostly right. It took two rounds of fixes with some offshore testers who stayed up late but the PR got in and merged. We just did (literally like 5min ago) a validation run against our target system and we're green for tomorrow. I told the testers to goto bed and then i pulled up HN and opened a coke.

There's no way in hell that would have happened without the coding agents we had on tap. So, yeah, i find a lot of value in the rate at which AI can work on code even if it's not perfect every time.

bunderbunder a day ago | parent | next [-]

True, it would not have happened back in the day. But oftentimes what would happen is that sane, sensible leadership would have a talk about delays on the critical path and adjust the schedule accordingly.

Maybe not as satisfying to people who enjoy being heroes. But it would not have been an automatic disaster.

xtiansimon 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> “…talk about delays on the critical path and adjust the schedule accordingly.”

And self-imposed deadlines are the worst—not saying that’s the case here. And when your leadership sets the goals, you do your best. But fast, good, cheap; pick two.

bunderbunder 8 hours ago | parent [-]

And if the deadlines really are hard, then you should be actively managing the critical path from the get-go. The very existence of upstream critical path dependencies that, as the parent poster’s story demonstrates, weren’t even necessary in the first place. Which suggests that this heroic agentic quick fix was the proverbial pound of cure.

I’d even go so far as to speculate that perhaps agentic coding also steered people away from the ounce of prevention in the first place. Humans aren’t perfect either, but over the past couple years I’ve had to spend increasingly much time asking, “Why again are we creating all this unnecessary complexity?”

archagon 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

“Look at how much more busywork I can do for the same salary!”

ffsm8 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Naw, you've missed a critical detail

> My offshore team

This is partially driven by the good old enterprise game of not being at fault when things go wrong and being able to communicate that to the stakeholders

It's not fancy but it's necessary in a lot of enterprises

Refreeze5224 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's great it can do that. But it in no way justifies the social and environmental costs of AI, which is the point of the article.

BadBadJellyBean a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't want to deny that. I mean I am using it. And if works well it's great. If it doesn't though it's exhausting. And if it produces bad code, it can do that at a speed that is overwhelming.

yencabulator 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Ah yes complex global rollout being forced to production on an arbitrary rapid deadline is exactly the time when more code of unknown quality should be added to the system at the last minute.

AIiscoming a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

AI builds like 95% for me than i play around with it for a bit for the last 5%.

I'm still a lot faster for certain things with AI but its weird. Instead of just being annoyed about some weird bug, i'm annoyed about an LLM which can do everything and then falls over itself on weird issues.

It feels weird true but it still also relevant faster?

BadBadJellyBean a day ago | parent [-]

I never liked telling people what to do or watching people do something. Using AI is exclusively like telling someone to do something who is either super smart or dumb as a brick and you never know which persona you will. The only thing you can be sure of is that it will produce whatever it produces very fast with 100% confidence. Also I care for code style, consistency and overall maintainability because I don't want to be locked into using LLMs and I can only really do that when I proof read everything. I don't want a huge project that will take a full rewrite for a human to understand it.

gonzalohm a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think the main problem is a conflict of objectives. AI companies need you to use more tokens so they are not going to improve that. They are optimizing the models to get as close as possible to the point in which people would stop using them because they are useless but without crossing that line.

Proof of this is the amount of unnecessary tasks that Claude does just as an excuse for not doing a good job doing the tasks that we ask it to do

zamadatix a day ago | parent [-]

Conflict of objectives is fine, it's not like we have a single provider of models vying for us to spend our money on. Something like collusion and price fixing across the industry would be a bit different.

sifar 19 hours ago | parent [-]

Every provider has a primary incentive for users to consume more tokens.

zahlman a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Surely there's some point at which you can take over, and they'll have saved you time while not causing too much agony?

dd8601fn 15 hours ago | parent [-]

Maybe it’s a personal thing but I found that at some size it would be like having someone chuck a big foreign codebase in your lap and saying, “Ok, I did most of it, now you make it work.”

I kinda have to stay engaged the whole time the best I can.

What that boils down to is, “go ahead and yolo small things I can fully review” or “really wrangle it close through a larger effort” or “go full vibecode and prayer.”

BadBadJellyBean 13 hours ago | parent [-]

Exactly this!

RomanKornev a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> herd a group of toddlers

It's called a fancy word "steering". Most of engineering is now steering or providing "taste" to AIs so they don't produce slop

cyberax a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I review all the agentic code and commit it myself. I also write some features manually, especially when I want to really make sure that I don't screw up. E.g. for authentication or for observability.

I also found that slowing down your development (just by a bit!) on purpose helps. Do not rush into implementing your new idea and give yourself at least a couple of days to think it through.

swader999 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Welcome to management.

BadBadJellyBean a day ago | parent | next [-]

I feel like humans don't switch between being an idiot and a genius quite as fast as LLMs do. But yeah I have been thinking about my future and I am not sure I am cut out for the role of manager.

strls 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Managing subordinates whom 1) Dou didn't hire 2) Are only there for cost reasons 3) You can't fire no matter how much they screw up.

RGamma 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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