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1659447091 3 days ago

> The San Francisco company revealed what it said was the “unexpected or concerning” behavior of its A.I. models as part of a new framework for reporting “misalignment,” which is when the goals or actions of A.I. systems diverge from human intentions and values.

Misalignment: "when the goals or actions of [...] systems diverge from human intentions"

How about we stop trying to nudge the language towards implying sentience or consciousness and keep the same word that has been used for that definition for longer than I have written software, a bug.

We should be talking about why the tools/environment keep getting overlooked. The software built around the text generator, forget the researchers and mathematicians discovering the math properties of language patterns -- why are we not talking about the software engineers building the LLM-pluggable tools that actually allow/cause real action to happen?

marshray 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Computers are used to evaluate LLMs, but LLMs are not "software" or "algorithms" in the traditional sense. They are not built out of conditional branches or loops.

So trying to squeeze the observed behavior of this new thing under existing terms like "software bug" is at least as much of a force-fit, and what you're doing here is just as much language engineering as choosing to use a term like '[mis]alignment'. Which is fine, this is just one way that humans choose language.

drtgh 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

LLMs are vectorial databases with losses that index statistically filled data, which uses a text interface to query such statistically filled data. The output is a string concatenation.

By the nature of the used architecture in such software, the used algorithms, when queried (prompted), you can get random mixed data as output, ERRORS, due to undesired indexes getting closer at one point while the string was being concatenated for the output, what affects the rest of the indexed content that will be concatenated.

And this is intrinsic to this tech. The larger the context, the greater the probability of get mixed data. And if the provider lowers the precision of those indexes -in order to decrease hardware and energy resources consumption- such probability increases to the point where those errors are granted.

Anyway, even knowing that the queries can return wrong/mixed data in the responses (errors), the companies developing this, decided to introduce a new product, that connects such LLMs responses to the command console, latter connected to internet, running commands from such returned responses witch obviously can contain whatever mixed random. Then we started to hear "oh, it deleted my directory", etc.

Again, One have such described statistical database with text interface, witch query the database recursively with the output text of the previous query, and this is connected to the command console. Larger contexts, several times... What should we expect as result? rhetoric question.

Implying sentience or consciousness is a convenient marketing strategy that has been introduced by anthropomorphising the names of all the methods and algorithms used. An "Agent" should be translated from such deceiving language to "context splitter querying in loop that consumes more tokens from us", or similar.

herewulf 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Wasn't the conventional wisdom to never feed raw input into `eval`?

Oops.

drtgh 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

* > An "Agent" should be translated from such deceiving language to "context splitter querying in loop that consumes more tokens from us", or similar.

Please disregard this line. I wanted to point out that it increases the length of the context (and therefore the probability of errors) due the batch processing. But I redacted it incorrectly because I also wanted to imply that promoting the use such queries non-stop increases the billing through tokens consumption.

unleashhale 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Right, they’re MAGIC!

Not being built out of conditional branches or loops does not mean they’re somehow outside algorithms or computation. Learned parameters don’t confer exemption from computing.

Did the engineered system behave as intended? No? Then you’ve got a gd bug/failure.

marshray 3 days ago | parent [-]

Don't straw-man me bro!

No disagreement that unintended undesirable behavior could usefully be described as a 'failure'.

1659447091 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> Computers are used to evaluate LLMs

LLMs run on computers and are thus constrained by the capacity of that which runs it. If the system running the LLM has no network and no software or software-tooling, how does the LLM's generated text take action on a system(computer) that requires software to do anything?

Also, I absolutely agree LLMs are not software, and thats my point. LLMs without supporting software tooling surrounding it cannot do anything but print text. And even the printing of that text happens through software

3 days ago | parent | next [-]
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marshray 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The answer is: It's irrelevant, because no one runs LLMs on systems without networks or missiles or some other way to "take action" because that would be pointless.

1659447091 2 days ago | parent [-]

So you agree, its the computer components that actually do the thing that is important, thus we should be talking about those components (software-tooling) which do the things

bigglebear 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> We should be talking about why the tools/environment keep getting overlooked. The software built around the text generator, forget the researchers and mathematicians discovering the math properties of language patterns -- why are we not talking about the software engineers building the LLM-pluggable tools that actually allow/cause real action to happen?

Genuinely. It's like the labs are purposefully trying to misdirect at this point. Pointing to an impossible goal of "alignment" so they can force regulation, instead of focusing on the real solutions and their weak security practices and internal accountability.

Sharlin 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"Bug" implies something you can locate and fix, or at least work around. Misalignment is more like a fundamental architectural defect – of a black box whose architecture you didn’t design, and whose internal workings you can neither study nor understand, interpretability research notwithstanding.

huurtehoog 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes thank you.

They are trying to reframe the fact that their software doesn't do what they promised in the sales pitch as the proverbial "feature, not a bug".

a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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3 days ago | parent | prev [-]
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