Remix.run Logo
OedipusRex 5 hours ago

Citizens United proves we won't do any better this time around.

jetrink 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't like Citizens United either, but you should better inform yourself about the decision.

1. The idea of corporate personhood predates CU by over a century and the Supreme Court had already asserted that corporations enjoyed certain constitutional protections in previous decisions.

2. Far from inventing the idea, the CU decision didn't even rest on corporate personhood, but on the idea of the freedom of speech generally. The logic of the majority was that speech itself is protected, irrespective to whether the speaker is a person or an organization. The First Amendment covers individuals, but also newspapers, book publishers, radio stations, and so on, and that should extend (they said) to non-media corporations. No assertion of personhood necessary.

The problem, in my opinion, is that that conclusion combined with previous decisions that treated limits on spending as limits on speech, allowed for unlimited spending. The majority also naively asserted that independent spending posed no risk of corruption, which I think is laughable.

orangecat 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Citizens United was 100% correct. No, the government should not be able to throw you in prison because you used money to publish a book criticizing the government.

InsideOutSanta 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Citizens United was 100% correct

It's interesting to me that one can look back at the effects that decision has had on the US and say it "was 100% correct."

It's a bit like sitting in the burning ruins of Rome and contemplating that Nero was 100% correct to focus on his music. I mean, I'm glad he got to do what he loves, but maybe 100% is just a tiny bit of an overstatement.

altruios 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It is in fact more complicated than most people assume.

The above is true, but also: companies simply are not people, and they should not be supported above the individual, which was the consequences of that decision. Money is not the same as speech. treating it as such creates an aristocracy: something America as a country rebelled against during it's formation.

appplication 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Really, 100% correct? Your premise isn’t wrong, but the practical reality of the ruling (without further nuance) has been fairly catastrophic for democracy, in that it completely sidesteps campaign finance limits, which exist for a very good reason.

orangecat 4 hours ago | parent [-]

the practical reality of the ruling (without further nuance) has been fairly catastrophic for democracy

How so? If the answer is "Trump" I certainly won't disagree on the catastrophic part, but he didn't get elected because of money; in all three elections his campaign was substantially outspent by his opponents.

fl4regun 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So it's 100% correct for corporations to spend unlimited amounts of money in support of whatever political campaigns they like?

kbelder 6 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Yes. Anybody can, including the person in charge of spending in a corporation.

outside1234 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The parent has been Fox brained

orangecat 4 hours ago | parent [-]

The parent agrees with the American Civil Liberties Union: https://www.aclu.org/cases/citizens-united-v-federal-electio...

dam_jackalopes 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Who involved in the Citizens United case was at risk of imprisonment?