| ▲ | walrus01 4 hours ago |
| I did a ctrl-f in the article for "missionary" or "missionaries" and found nothing. There's a real problem (in my opinion) with weird evangelical Christian missionaries who treat the population of PNG as some sort of religious terra nullus. It's a bit weird to write a reasonably lengthy and detailed article about New Guinea and not mention the missionaries...? They see it as some great holy mission from god to go out into the hinterlands and convert the local people from their local existing belief system to their own particular form of Christianity. The "mission aviation foundation" collects considerable amounts of money to operate bush planes for this purpose. Edit: PNG is really the most egregious example, but there is clearly a phenomenon that exists of evangelical christian missionaries that seek out the "least developed" or most "bone in the nose" pre-technology isolated cultures and then do fervent work to convert them into dedicated followers of their own specific niche of Christianity. You'll see it in very rural parts of Africa as well. If you spend some time in the churches where they raise funds for these and look at the presentations of the guest speakers brought in to solicit funds for their ongoing missionary campaigns you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. |
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| ▲ | relevant_stats 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > They see it as some great holy mission from god to go out into the hinterlands and convert the local people from their local existing belief system to their own particular form of Christianity. Call me apologist, but I can see no real problem with that. They are willing to take risks and have enough motivation to spend resources. Whatever I think about their belief system in my opinion they are free to do that. It's not 1800s, if the given population doesn't like missionaries, as far as I'm aware it's equally free not to listen to them. Or to throw them out. |
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| ▲ | timcobb 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Cargo culting is still a thing, the power imbalance is still real here. Kicking people out is generally much trickier than letting them in, these aren't simple things. Remote populations aren't global idea consumers at the internet-accessible global ideas mart. | | |
| ▲ | account42 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | These missionaries don't come in with an army. Its more often small families or a couple of individual vs entire villages of natives and the "conversion" is done via talking, persistence and kindness rather than by force. > Remote populations aren't global idea consumers at the internet-accessible global ideas mart. Shouldn't that be a good thing according to your logic? Its not like the global ideas mart is less different from their own society than what the missionaries bring and it would be quite presumptuous to say that your beliefs or those that you consider "global ideas" are better for as yet untouched tribes than those of christian missionaries. | |
| ▲ | ericmay 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Remote populations aren't global idea consumers at the internet-accessible global ideas mart. Why not? | | |
| ▲ | walrus01 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | At the risk of taking the bait, what percentage of PNG highland villagers living in grass thatched huts do you think have 24x7 electricity and broadband Internet and intermediate to advanced level literacy in one of the Internet's major languages? | | |
| ▲ | ggsp 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | As someone who knows exactly nothing about PNG, I got curious and had an AI retrieve some numbers: IFPRI's 2023 survey of ~2,700 rural PNG households (~900 in highland strata) found 57–70% of highland homes thatched; across those same strata, 8–12% were on-grid, 41–68% had solar, and 5–14% had no electricity. This nonrepresentative sample excluded communities more than two hours from motorable road or river access and "areas with known security risks". The same study found adult literacy of 40–54% (27% for seasonal-highlands women), assessed using Tok Pisin (not English) sentences—directly for household heads and by household-head proxy for other members—and secondary/vocational completion of 4–8% [1]. Phones: the 2016–18 DHS put mobile-phone ownership at 34% of people aged 15–49 nationally [2]; a 2018 rural (lowlands, not highlands) IFPRI survey found just over half of households had no phone-owning member, and only about a quarter of the poorest quintile owned a phone [3]. Cellular connections—distinct from unique owners—subsequently rose from ~2.7M in 2019 [3] to 5.03M in early 2025 [4]; there were 2.57M internet users (24.1% of the population) in early 2025 [4]. [1] https://cgspace.cgiar.org/items/05f7b268-cfd9-4b35-aba6-71c8... (Tables 2.4, 2.7, 2.8) [2] https://blogs.worldbank.org/en/impactevaluations/improved-ta... [3] https://cgspace.cgiar.org/items/fd5ac6eb-5268-4db7-ac96-bf01... [4] https://datareportal.com/reports/digital-2025-papua-new-guin... | |
| ▲ | ericmay 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It’s not bait. I don’t think the OP that I responded to was speaking about the mechanics of introducing these populations to the Internet (they’re welcome to correct me) but that they shouldn’t be introduced to such things or that the introduction would be tantamount to exploitation of some sort. | | |
| ▲ | walrus01 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I read it more as that a remote highlands PNG villager is not "innoculated" against the concept of, and is not aware of the methodologies that will be used by odd foreigners who have a well thought out plan to convert people to their specific ideology. Like, if you're out shopping and some person starts up a weirdly friendly conversation with you that leads to a MLM sales pitch, you already know that's a thing which exists and why you're almost certainly not interested in participating even before the pitch arrives. | | |
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| ▲ | anon291 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | It is immoral to treat another human being as too stupid to be exposed to others and worthy of your protection because you view them as primitive. |
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| ▲ | nisiddharth 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't think they even have electricity, let alone the internet. |
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| ▲ | xg15 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > It's not 1800s, if the given population doesn't like missionaries, as far as I'm aware it's equally free not to listen to them. Or to throw them out. The given population doesn't know that though... | | |
| ▲ | account42 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | That argument would necessitate treating them like children rather than adults who can think and choose for themselves. I don't think this is a healthy approach that would work out well at all. | |
| ▲ | Gareth321 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Know what? They don't know that they can not listen to people? I don't believe that at all. | |
| ▲ | relevant_stats 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You claim they think they have to listen to missionaries? |
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| ▲ | Brendinooo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >They see it as some great holy mission from god to go out into the hinterlands and convert the local people from their local existing belief system to their own particular form of Christianity That is, pretty famously, the "great commission" given by the founder of the faith. >Christian missionaries who treat the population of PNG as some sort of religious terra nullus Apparently it's not a religious terra nullus, since PNG's parliament recently voted 80-4 to identify themselves as a Christian nation. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/pacific/544665/papua-new-guinea-d... |
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| ▲ | embedding-shape 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Well, colonialism also been an issue for hundreds of years, but wouldn't it be boring to bring that up every time a country impacted by it is mentioned? This article is clearly not about missionaries, why would they be required to mention them? Half the world been impacted by missionaries one way or another, we'd never hear the end of it if it'd be mentioned every single time... |
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| ▲ | walrus01 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's a very incomplete picture of the situation in PNG to describe it in a reasonably lengthy article (particularly the situation in the post 1945 modern era) without at least spending a paragraph on the presence and influence of missionaries. It's like trying to describe Idaho and neglecting to mention the potato farming area in the fertile flat land within a few hundred km radius of Boise, for example. Missionaries put a very specific special emphasis and great deal of attention on PNG as a "target", so yes they're worldwide, but they're very much more so in PNG. | | |
| ▲ | embedding-shape 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > It's a very incomplete picture of the situation in PNG to describe it in a reasonably lengthy article (particularly the situation in the post 1945 modern era) without at least spending a paragraph on the presence and influence of missionaries. Why don't you read through the article before you comment on how incomplete or not it is? It's literally not about missionaries but about something else, the first contact with those tribes, which wasn't missionaries at all, but seemingly gold prospectors, if I skimmed correctly. | | |
| ▲ | walrus01 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I read the article and I comprehend the English language. The article puts a specific emphasis on foreigners "discovering" that the rural interior of the country was populated, and foreigners going up into the highlands and contacting the local people. A great many of those foreigners were (and still are) missionaries. It's a well documented historical fact that a great deal of the "exploration" of the interior of PNG was by Christian missionaries. | | |
| ▲ | embedding-shape 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > A great many of those foreigners were (and still are) missionaries. Sure, but not in this case, that the article we're supposed to be discussing, is about! Does every article about PNG need to include that Christian missionaries at one point were there, even if the events the article discusses isn't about Christian missionaries? Like some sort of legally enforced disclaimer in the footer or whatever? Why the crusade here, against some random article about something else?? | | |
| ▲ | walrus01 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | To be clear I don't have a beef with the author of the article, but the missionaries themselves. I just thought it was odd to write an article about foreigners going up into the PNG highlands and not mention missionaries at all. Not sure whether it's intentional in the context, but interesting Freudian slip type use of the word "crusade", you might want to consider its etymology and origins. | | |
| ▲ | embedding-shape 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Very much intentional, because just like the crusades, you're fighting against some imaginary enemy in a very misplaced location. The article is about different set of foreigners going to the highlands, the first ones, which weren't missionaries, so of course the article doesn't talk about the missionaries... | | |
| ▲ | account42 an hour ago | parent [-] | | The crusades were not fighting imaginary enemies and much of the territory was relatively recently conquered by the muslims they were fighting. |
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| ▲ | throwaway27448 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I mean we shouldn't hear the end of it. Humanity is theoretically capable of learning. I have my doubts but the liberals assure me |
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| ▲ | skissane 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > There's a real problem (in my opinion) with weird evangelical Christian missionaries who treat the population of PNG as some sort of religious terra nullus The contemporary role of missionaries is complicated. My mother is a (now retired) doctor, who formerly (>10 years ago) worked for a Seventh Day Adventist church mission in the Solomon Islands (I also mentioned in another comment she worked in the PNG, that was with Australian Doctors International, a secular charity–although even part of that work involved working with a French doctor who happened to be a Catholic nun). My mother isn't a Seventh Day Adventist, she isn't even particularly religious (lapsed Catholic) – her personal motivations weren't about religion, it was about charity, and also the professional and personal experience. She just somehow (I think through some work colleagues who happened to be Seventh Day Adventists) became aware of the mission and ended up working for it–it was essentially volunteering, they may have reimbursed some of her expenses, but whatever she was paid was a fraction of what she'd get working as a doctor in Australia. The mission wasn't currently converting the local population – that had already happened generations ago - and much of the local population combined Christianity with elements of their indigenous belief systems. I guess coming from a Catholic background gave her some personal tolerance for the religious aspect, even if it was never her motivation. |
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| ▲ | throwaway2037 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why is this downvoted? This is high quality post sharing personal experience. This is one of the best reasons to read HN. |
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| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | ransom1538 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is what Columbus saw: "The captive women told the Spaniards that Carib men traveled by canoe to neighboring islands, killed or captured men and carried away young women. Chanca says the women were kept as servants and concubines. They further alleged that children born to these captive women by Carib men were eaten, whereas children born to Carib women were raised." IMHO People had it rough before missions. These particular natives left right there and were ready to sign up! |
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| ▲ | hermitcrab 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | People have been saying nasty things about neighbouring groups since forever. | |
| ▲ | TheOtherHobbes 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Columbus and the Conquistadores and slavers did exactly the same things, at scale. (Apart from the cannibalism, so far as we know.) Being able to write and use technology stops no one from being a savage, if they're that way inclined. | | | |
| ▲ | nibbleyou 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | redsocksfan45 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | kurtis_reed 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Congratulations on your opinion? |