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int32_64 4 hours ago

Aaron Swartz was facing up to 35 years for wire fraud and hacking for swiping some JSTOR documents, and the DOJ has done nothing against the AI companies and their IP violating antics.

snickerbockers 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Because that's not what IP law is for. IP law was always corporate rent-seeking. None of those arguments about fairly compensating people for their creations or preserving the profit motive were ever being made in good faith. The point was always to force you to pay for something that would be free under natural laws. And I do mean you specifically, because the act of copying information freely was always going to be preserved for them.

gruez 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>and the DOJ has done nothing against the AI companies and their IP violating antics.

For good reason. Courts have so far ruled AI training is fair use, and it doesn't look likely to be overturned by the supreme court. Theres also the matter of some labs pirating books to get training data, which is illegal (they lost in civil court), but it's unclear whether that can be criminally prosecuted.

c2h5oh an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Courts have also ruled that sharing in P2P network is enough to get hit with 150k in statutory damages per shared work.

AI companies did quite a bit of uploading while e.g. getting Anna's archive over BitTorrent.

eastbound an hour ago | parent [-]

It's transformative. Not aimed at exact reproduction, so not in the scope of copyright law.

tareqak an hour ago | parent | next [-]

They participated in uploading the files as part of the downloading the torrent from other peers. Their use of the BitTorrent protocol to acquire these files would not have been transformative.

lobf an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I think you misread. There is nothing transformative about bittorrent automatically sharing parts of a file you're downloading with your peers.

adastra22 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Hacking other companies is illegal as far as I understand.

gruez 3 hours ago | parent [-]

1. OP specifically mentioned "IP violating antics", not hacking

2. All the hacking legislation (and criminal law in general) require proving intent, which so far as we can tell didn't exist in those cases. At best you can try some "reckless" or "negligent" angle, but that would a novel legal argument and would be risky to prosecute

someothherguyy 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> All the hacking legislation (and criminal law in general) require proving intent

No, they don't, see laws that make negligent behavior illegal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

crote 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

But officer, I didn't mean for my autonomous bank vault busting robot to autonomously bust any bank vaults!

Madmallard 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It wouldn't be ruled fair use in a sane society without bribery and lobbying with competent technologically savvy law interpreters.

crote 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Okay, and? If anything, the Swartz case was even more direct fair use. There's very little to use JSTOR for which isn't some form of teaching, scholarship, or research!

Clearly the fact that the end-use is (possibly) fair use isn't the only thing that matters.

tptacek 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's not at all relevant to this thread, but no he wasn't. At their worst, prosecutors were threatening to push for 7 years; the guideline sentence for Swartz's offense, were he to take it to trial and lose, would likely have been under the level allowing for straight probation (go to a sentencing calculator and plug the values in); writing after his death, his own lawyer stated that had he gone to trial and lost he was unlikely to face a custodial sentence at all.

We get this "35 year" number from adding up all the counts he faced, taking their maximum sentence. That's just not how sentencing works. Like charges group, and you're sentenced according to the most severe charge.

People cite these numbers in part because DOJ posts them in their press releases. DOJ is in these instances lying. When we amplify those lies, we're doing their work for them.

tzs 2 hours ago | parent [-]

This is 100% correct.

Here are some useful links. This is an explanation of just how they got those ridiculous numbers like 35 years [1].

There is also often confusion of what he did and what hewas charged with. Here's a two part series going over that [2][3].

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20130211030902/https://www.popeh...

[2] https://volokh.com/2013/01/14/aaron-swartz-charges/

[3] https://volokh.com/2013/01/16/the-criminal-charges-against-a...

ronnier 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So you are for shutting down xcancel?

dearing 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Michel Foucault enters the chat.

eadler 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I've read a fair amount of Foucault and while I could guess, what specifically were you thinking of?

dearing 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Aaron sees safety in sharing, interests see threats in the shared, governence see threats in the sharing.