They have such a weird and outdated view of China, it's almost comical. It's like America's answer to everything bad coming to them is protectionism. They still think China is a third world country with a bunch of factories and polluting industries not able to do anything else other than manufacturing products for foreign companies

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rayiner 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Your first point is correct, but your second point doesn't follow. Lack of protectionism is based on the notion that the U.S. will always be technologically one step ahead of China because China can only copy. That's what has gotten us to where we are. Note that China itself is a protectionist economy. So in some sense protectionism is recognizing that China has a pretty good industrial policy and copying it.

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rglover 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

China played the smart long game and took advantage of America's ignorance and short-sighted thinking. They already "won" in the sense that they outmaneuvered the U.S. because they relied on flaws in human nature (specifically, greed). Their moves around AI are just more of the same clever behavior.

I don't agree with all of their means for getting here, but to accomplish what they have in ~30 or so years [1] should blow minds far more than it does in the West. And they did it by convincing us to give them control of our manufacturing and selling us (literal) boatloads of cheap junk. Historians will look back on this era as one of the greatest demonstrations of "winning without firing a single shot."

This whole insular POV is tired, ignorant, and frankly just another indicator that America has lost the plot, shit-faced on its own arrogance.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_GDP_of_China

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altcognito 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

China deliberately adopted western style market institutions. They joined the WTO. No, they aren't a fully westernized market, but they are closer to a competitive marketplace than the state dictating all of what will or will not be built.

I'm confused, what has America and the west lost the plot on? You would have preferred the west to exploit China more?

This framing of a zero sum game is counterproductive.

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rglover an hour ago | parent [-]

> This framing of a zero sum game is counterproductive.

I agree but that's not at all what I was getting at. Quite the opposite. The mistake America made, what made it vulnerable, was playing everything like a zero sum game. We're in the early days of that behavior coming to roost.

	▲	altcognito 22 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		No, that is exactly what you were getting at: > China played the smart long game and took advantage of America's... Zero sum games imply that if there is a winner, there has to be a loser. That one country takes advantage of another.

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black6 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Unrestricted Warfare by Colonels Xiangsui and Liang is a must read. China's been on the path for quite a while.

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superxpro12 38 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

its the natural conclusion of raw unregulated capitalism. Without guiderails, we offshored all production (because it was cheaper), and we suffered a complete loss of manufacturing workforce. Now that Trump has gone full protectionist, we have nothing with which to manufacture from. It's beautifully ironic in a way, in that our greed will be our downfall.

Of course china isnt innocent in all of this. Their 996 work culture is inhuman, and basically indentured service. But, their government is able to leverage that workforce.

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scottLobster 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The alternative to protectionism is Chinese-style industrial policy. Which necessitates Chinese-style "we don't care if you're a billionaire, you will do as we say or men with guns will make you" levels of governmental control. Which I'm not sure any of us really want, as satisfying as it would to watch these CEOs get publicly re-educated.

They aren't patriotic and they don't really care about competing with China, they fancy themselves princes and are playing on the silents/boomers in charge being irreparably stuck in the Cold War.

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oceanplexian an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

It goes both ways. It has been almost 10 years since I visited the PRC but the air and water were heavily polluted with industrial waste, outside the tier 1 cities people were living in makeshift subsistence tin housing, and it wasn’t uncommon to see farmers using oxcarts.

There’s a reason China has a GDP per capita somewhere around that of Argentina.

Of course, they also have futuristic cities, maglev, and plenty of brilliant engineers and scientists, therefore it makes sense to be pragmatic. But there are a lot people talking up China because they hate the US and are bought into a massive propaganda / influencer campaign.

	▲	toasty228 an hour ago \| parent [-]
		> outside the tier 1 cities people were living in makeshift subsistence tin housing Having visited the US a few times it felt that way too