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ronsor 5 hours ago

Almost every serious customer is already using ZDR where nothing is retained at all, instead of "anonymized" data.

steveBK123 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They already trained on pirated content, what makes you think they are going to honor ZDR?

GrinningFool 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Contractual obligations carry teeth. Scraping the internet is relatively risk-free.

steveBK123 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Good luck proving your data was laundered and included in a training run

ForHackernews an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean...

https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/jury-sides-with-openai-sam-altma...

Yizahi 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A lot substance is hinged on the exact definition of the word "data" or "user data". In the age of post-truth everyone is claiming that they keep no "user data". Except that after running it once through some transformer program it's no longer "user data", it's something entirely else and these corpos gave ZERO promises regarding such laundered/transformed data at all, ever.

nrmitchi 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The guarantee on this is a (contractual) “trust me bro”, and a right to try to sue a multi-trillion-dollar company who will absolutely drive you into the ground with legal red tape.

If you are big enough to be able to withstand that, you’re already running (or trying to run) your own/open-weight models.

enugu 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Doesn't Amazon Bedrock change this, since OpenAI does not have access to the data?

nrmitchi 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Well that is a different thing and an entirely different provider than OpenAI/Anthropics ZDR promise.

torginus 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Just a thought experiment: considering training seems to be 'fair use', I wonder if they trained a tiny model to retain key info from your prompts, would mean that this would still constitute fair use, and allow them to legally claim they don't retain your data.

ronsor 5 hours ago | parent [-]

ZDR is shorthand for a more specified agreement of "we don't do anything other than generate your output tokens", so no.

Besides, true ZDR is usually offered by third-parties with deals to host OpenAI models, such as Amazon (AWS Bedrock) and Microsoft (Azure).

applfanboysbgon 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

ZDR is based on the exact same pinky-promise as training opt-outs. There is no technical barrier to OpenAI, or whoever is running your compute, retaining your prompt after they run inference on their servers. If you don't control the hardware the model is being inferenced on, you don't control your data.

pennomi 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Where nothing is retained at all, allegedly.