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childofhedgehog 7 hours ago

Probably an oversimplified question but how do we actually stop this?

JohnFen 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A good start is to vote in the midterms to reduce the amount of power that these antihuman criminals have. The US is currently in the midst of a serious political disaster and there will be no quick fix to any of this. But if we take every opportunity possible whenever we can to rid ourselves of these people and to stand in their way as much as possible, we can work our way back from the brink.

dataflow 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm not sure winning in the midterms will be a net positive for Democrats (barring an infeasible supermajority). Even if they stop everything Republicans want to do (which they won't even get close to), that's just going to become the excuse for the next Republican campaign to blame Democrats for a dysfunctional government, and there's a good chance Democrats would lose as a result. I wouldn't be surprised if it would actually turn out better for Democrats if they stay a minority so that they can't get the blame during the presidential election.

mikestew 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Republicans have been a buttplug in the political process for going on twenty years, and yet who has the majority in congress?

alphawhisky 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Winning the midterms would make the house speaker a democrat, which would allow for the removal of both the president and vice president via impeachment such that the democratic speaker of the house becomes the acting president, effectively stopping the bullshit of this administration. The question then becomes if the amount of flipped senate seats + the number of republican senators voting yes on impeachment reaches a supermajority. Possible for Trump, highly unlikely for Vance. This was likely the angle Republicans plan to take, as that would make Vance the Incumbent in the 2028 elections, giving him a statistical edge. It also allows for the current republicans in office to look like they are trying to meet the demands of their constituents without giving up any real power and effectively not changing their agenda. A reminder that although Trump is a rapist, the fight against this administration will not end with him. Republicans will continue to employ smoke and mirrors strategies and lean heavily into value extraction from the US and global economy as has been occuring.

dataflow 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Winning the midterms would make the house speaker a democrat, which would allow for the removal of both the president and vice president via impeachment

That's... not how it works. Democrats literally had a House speaker and the president was, as you could see, not removed despite impeachment.

rurp 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Impeachment means nothing without convinction by a super majority in the senate. The republicans had a chance to convict trump and remove him from our politics right after he tried to murder them on Jan 6, but most of them were still to stupid or spineless to vote for it. No chance they are going to suddenly spring into action next year.

We're all stuck with two more years of an increasingly demented trump. The best Dems can do is highlight to incompetence/corruption, limt the damage, and get their own brand out of the mud so they can win a strong majority in 2028.

pc86 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

mplanchard 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Two decades puts us back to the post-9/11 war on terror era, from which it seems like a fairly straight line to, for example, ICE murdering people in the streets.

So, yeah, political disasters take time to reach their conclusions, and the slide can be arrested at any point before it gets too bad. I think it’s probably correct that we’ve been in the midst of one for at least two decades, if not longer.

6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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0cf8612b2e1e 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I am so Le tired of hearing people give a damn about the state of the world. Why can’t you all just be more passive non voters like myself?

The world has not literally ended yet, so all concerns are overblown.

kelseyfrog 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Exactly! We should only work to prevent the end of the world after it has ended.

Y-bar 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Unfortunately the answer is ”it requires effort”, or in other words: Vote (and hold them accountable after the ballots have been counted), Shout (literally), Protest (including civil disobedience), join any civil or environmental movement, help file legal challenges.

Democracy is for good and for worse not a one-and-done thing, it is a continuous fight.

anigbrowl 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The time cost to the thousands of people putting in long hours to organize against bad ideas is a measurable loss to the economy. It's very clear that the system itself is deficient because it massively rewards first movers, incumbents, and amplifies economic leverage rather than mitigating it.

anon7725 5 hours ago | parent [-]

"the economy" is not the only reason that we're alive or form bonds of association.

scottyah 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This doesn't seem like a very effective method. I would expect something more along the lines of developing laws around noise pollution or something. Literally shouting at a data center seems more cathartic than helpful.

RankingMember 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's about numbers. A small group isn't going to do anything directly to the data center, but it can raise awareness that other people do indeed care. This, in turn, can slowly (over multiple demonstrations) grow the size of the demonstrations to a critical mass that cannot be ignored.

noir_lord 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> I would expect something more along the lines of developing laws around noise pollution or something.

How do you think you as a voter who presumably aren't a billionaire (or CEO of a mega corporation) with politicians on speed dial who will take the call get the politicians to pass those laws?

If the electorate is asleep at the wheel, the people pushing the politicians are all pushing them one way and the car isn't going in the direction that most of the electorate would necessarily want.

If you value your democracy you sometimes have to be an active participant in it and sometimes that means turning up more than once ever X years and ticking a box.

pfdietz 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If such reviews are required by legislation then you stop it in the courts; approvals without legally required steps are invalid.

If they are not required by legislation then you just deal with the change.

While you're thinking about this, realize even the Democrats are annoyed at how weaponized things like NEPA have become to slow down necessary changes.

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crawfordcomeaux 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Thousands of people marching on data centers and taking them over at the same time.

Elections will never save you when the parties in power serve the billionaires.

RankingMember 6 hours ago | parent [-]

The people in power are making a lot of mistakes right now. You ignore popular will at your peril. The more the bought-and-paid for Supreme Court and politicians weaken the power of the individual voter through shit like Citizens United and gerrymandering, the further they push people towards "uncivilized" methods.

schainks 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

1. Vote

2. Vote

3. Vote

4. Find every publicly accessible local forum with _your_ representatives at every level, and get on the mic. Tell your reps they will lose your vote and the votes of your entire network for complicity in harm against society on behalf of the billionaire class. Follow through on that threat.

Extreme option: Run for election yourself on the platform and get voted into office. The bar is lower than ever in some places.

unethical_ban 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Scrap the current forms of elected representation with one that encourages multiple parties instead of a forced dichotomy. Create some kind of constant recall mechanism for elected officials. And other things.

idontwantthis 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Elections have consequences. Vote democrat in November and again in 2028. When someone tells you both sides are the same tell them no, it's only Republicans that are allowing Datacenters to sidestep the law in order to poison us more efficiently.

cogman10 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Vote strategically.

Democrats aren't by default better on this issue vs republicans so you need to be more involved than just voting in the general.

If you are in a D leaning district, then register as a D and vote in the D primary. Make sure the candidate you vote for is the most likely to win who isn't captured by big business.

A good example of a datacenter friendly dem that just won by the skin of their teeth is Crowley for governor in Wisconson.

RankingMember 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

We need ranked choice like yesterday. It's not a magic fix-it solution, but it is a giant step in the right direction. I'm so tired of the whiplash between these two parties.

idontwantthis 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Democrats aren't by default better on this issue vs republicans so you need to be more involved than just voting in the general.

The only thing that matters is Democrats gaining control of Congress and state governments. The choice that isn't a democrat is the wrong one. The time to vote out an incumbent was the primary.

cogman10 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> The time to vote out an incumbent was the primary.

I agree, that's why I'm saying you should be involved in the primary and not just the general. Because, as I said, it's not the default position of the democrat party to be for regulating datacenters. I gave an explicit example of that where a dem is completely aligned with the republicans on DCs.

Dems win power, but they are still beholden to OpenAI, then they'll be no better than the republicans on this issue.

It's too late for 2026 and IMO you should vote for Ds wherever you are at. But if you want to affect change on DCs then voting in the primary for anti-dc dems is what you have to do. It's not enough to just vote in the general elections.

idontwantthis 6 hours ago | parent [-]

You're not wrong, but you are muddying the waters. The sides are clear and bringing up primaries when it's too late is irrelevant.

> they'll be no better than the republicans on this issue.

There is no reason to think this is true. I will eat a gas generator if a Democrat president orders his EPA administrator to break established rules and precedent like the current one is doing.

cogman10 6 hours ago | parent [-]

> You're not wrong, but you are muddying the waters.

No I'm not. We can walk and chew gum. It's important to recognize when and how Dems fail and this is one case where more than a few are failing their voters.

> There is no reason to think this is true.

There is if people aren't involved. A Gavin Newsom president would absolutely be pretty happy to receive campaign funding from AI firms.

> I will eat a gas generator if a Democrat president orders his EPA administrator to break established rules and precedent like the current one is doing.

Break the rules, no that's unlikely. However, it's entirely possible that the same results and rubber-stamping happens with enough campaign contributions. You need to look no further than all the money that's been dumped into "clean coal" and "CO2 capture" boondoggles by democrats to understand how this sort of thing works.

I could completely see a democrat president allowing DCs to be built so long as they buy carbon offsets, which is every bit as corrupt as just telling the EPA to not regulate. It's simply just not as brazen.

But I don't think this is true of any or all democrat presidential candidates, just some. Specifically Newsom would very much pull this sort of shit.

elomnusk 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We usually have had less than 30% participation for the local Democratic primary in off years (Republican primary in off-years is not much better). The complete lack of civic-mindedness is why the only strategy that works at the general election is "vote for the lesser evil." Note: that only include 2 viable candidates, a third party will never win the Presidential election without elimination of the parties themselves or implementation of rank-choice voting by a majority of states to counteract the anti-democratic (that's small "d") bias of the Electoral College.

scottyah 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If you still trust anyone just because they claim to be a Democrat, you haven't been paying enough attention.

idontwantthis 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's not my claim.

Republicans just took a vocal public oath of loyalty to their President in which they promised to cheat in the the election. That happened. It's on video.

My claim is that you should vote for the other party. That sounds reasonable to me.

I voted in the primary against the incumbent. The incumbent won. I will vote for them because the Republican opponent is a documented sexual predator. That is literally true.

These are the "two sides" we are dealing with.

atmavatar 5 hours ago | parent [-]

It's even worse: Trump literally just promised during his midterm convention to pay everyone $5,000 should the Republicans win the midterms.

Note that this promise is itself illegal. It is a violation of 18 USC 597.

See: https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=title%3A18+section%3...

AnthonyMouse 3 hours ago | parent [-]

That interpretation seems... odd. You seem to be implying that if your policy is to give everyone a tax credit (i.e. give them money) if you win then you're not allowed to tell anyone about it.

atmavatar an hour ago | parent [-]

No.

He literally says he'll cut a check for $5,000 for every adult american if the Republicans win both the House and Senate in the midterms.

You don't have to take my word for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4NphZBfmnE

He's also stated that he can issue the money without help from Congress, which directly contradicts the idea that it's harmless bloviating about voting in a 120th Congress to implement specific policy:

See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbLXAdvZcro&t=40s

... though that distinction shouldn't really matter.

The payout is very much a quid pro quo bribe for voters. No additional interpretation of his words is necessary: he's said it very directly himself.

RankingMember 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The people that treat political parties like sports teams are awful and a big part of why we're where we are today, but with the current state of affairs and the choice being between essentially fascism (Republicans) and 1990s conservatism (Democrats), it's not a hard choice. I couldn't agree more with what I think you're implying though, which is that this is a shit state of affairs where we're constantly voting for the lesser of two evils. We need ranked choice and open primaries, imo.

palmotea 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Elections have consequences. Vote democrat in November and again in 2028. When someone tells you both sides are the same tell them no, it's only Republicans that are allowing Datacenters to sidestep the law in order to poison us more efficiently.

It's not that simple. The Democrats are shit, and lost to Trump twice because of that shittiness. Perversely, Trump has allowed them to convince themselves that they don't have to reform.

I don't expect anything to change if the Democrats gain power, they'll curb only the most egregious abuses curbed a bit, while leaving the overall thing intact. Then they'll lose again because they're shit.

Goronmon 6 hours ago | parent [-]

So vote for Republicans because while the outcomes are worse, at least they aren't pretending they are going to make things better?

You've made it clear why you think people absolutely shouldn't vote for Democrats, but haven't really stated what people should do instead, just left the implication.

palmotea 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> So vote for Republicans because while the outcomes are worse, at least they aren't pretending they are going to make things better?

No, voting for Democrats isn't enough, because they're shit. They'll probably in better shape to be reformed that Republicans, but that's not saying much. I don't have a ton of hope based on what I'm seeing. I expect they'll either go back to the behaviors that enabled Trump, or commit some anti-democratic power grab more extreme than anything Trump has ever done.

IMHO, after someone like Trump, they need to reform themselves to be an actual-majority party that can competitive almost everywhere.