VisaNet & friends make the modern consumer world go round. The fees they extract are a drop in the bucket compared to the economic activity that they enable with their networks. Many businesses simply couldn't exist without something approximating this.

https://investor.visa.com/news/news-details/2016/Visa-Commis...

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rednb 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You are literally linking to a page published by Visa's Investors Relations Department.

The problem is that like all cartels, they hold progress back. Things could be even more efficient than the current state of affairs. For example we could have open standards with thousands of local players, much faster settlement times etc...

There are also aspects such as the fact that due to this concentration of power, the whole world is subject to US sanctions, such that a EU citizen sanctioned by the US is effectively cut off from civilization.

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bob1029 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I like how providing an incredibly efficient payment network is framed as holding progress back.

I'd frame it as making the standards for competition very high.

I don't see people getting super ideological about their inability to create monocrystaline turbine blades or 2nm semiconductors in their garages. Why payment networks? Because computers? The overall network is way more complicated than a specific technological system or clever open standards document.

These networks would be usurped if someone could actually come up with a better system. The economy insists upon it constantly.

	▲	kiririn7 an hour ago \| parent \| next [-]
		“It works extremely well” doesn’t establish “its prices and restrictions are justified”. much better, less parasitic systems are possible, look at brazil and PIX. "These networks would be usurped if someone could actually come up with a better system" the problem is the network effects with payments is so strong that this is wrong. to explain it simply, Network effects and customer lock-in mean the best system doesn’t automatically win.
	▲	rednb 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I 100% agree that their business is operated extremely well and delivers lots of value. I am just saying that in my opinion, society would be even better off if this industry wasn't controlled by a cartel and i pointed 2 examples of how. One difference between this and turbines, is that payment networks are sitting at the heart of the economy of countless countries. Turbines have a very different risk profile, much more modest and localized. Russia was for example cut off from high-tech maintenance contracts but has been able to deal with it by manufacturing their own replacement part + there are maintenance cycles and spare parts so any disruption in service is not immediate unlike payments.

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9cb14c1ec0 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes. As a merchant it's pretty cool that the money just shows up and I don't have to chase down as much bad debt. The processing costs easily pay for themselves.

	▲	kiririn7 an hour ago \| parent [-]
		unfortunately those processing costs actually dont need to exist.(or atleast should be 10x smaller)

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ks2048 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It seems Visa revenue is $40B/year. You shouldn't compare that to the amount of economic activity they enable - you should compare it to how much it could cost to run a system like theirs.

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pennomi 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The problem is not that the tech is bad, it’s that the industry is a cartel with no viable way to disrupt the established players.

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klabb3 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> VisaNet & friends make the modern consumer world go round.

I mean, as opposed to what? You could apply this to any infrastructure cartel like with AT&T in the 90s or Comcast or 100s of historical examples. The alternative to a bridge troll is not ”no bridge”.

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amaccuish 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Well, in Germany the "girocard", the local card network, is the most popular form of payment. So I guess, citation needed?