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mahrain 11 hours ago

Already a reality in mainland China, which is a country with very little street crime, grafitti, vandalism etc.

QuantumNomad_ 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Thanks, I’ll keep the graffiti and vandalism.

vaylian 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> which is a country with very little street crime, grafitti, vandalism etc.

and a lot of human rights violations

gustavus 11 hours ago | parent [-]

That's only for bad people who don't agree with the right thoughts and the right thinking. Don't worry as long as you don't disagree with the government you'll be fine citizen, after all you wouldn't want to disagree with the government would you?

10 hours ago | parent [-]
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maxerickson 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's very little of those things in most places.

It would be nice if there were less, but that change shouldn't come at a significant cost.

As an example, the FBI has data on $10-20 billion in property crimes per year in the US. Wow, that's a lot. Of course, there's probably $5-$10 trillion dollars of personal property.

budman1 10 hours ago | parent [-]

my first time in Zurich. ton's of graffiti seen while leaving the airport.

if they have it, everyone does.

gizajob 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

One person’s graffiti and vandalism is another persons freedom of artistic expression. Like how music magically turns into “noise” when someone buys an apartment next to a lively gig venue.

quelqueivan 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There probably was very little street crime, graffiti, and vandalism in the German Democratic Republic and in the USSR. And there very likely is little street crime in North Korea.

If the benefits can be had at too high a price, that doesn't make the price worth paying.

ncr100 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Graffiti is amazing. It is protest.

creaturemachine 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's counter-culture and I'm here for it. I had a fun convo with my daughter about why rail cars are so frequently tagged. More fascinating are the hidden pieces in tunnels and the like, where only few people will ever see it.

vider 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wish people would stop protesting in the elevator in my apartment building.

fmobus 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No, it's literally tagging territory. They literally call it tagging.

folkrav 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

"They" call tags tags, and graffiti, graffiti.

iamnothere 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Not really, graffiti artists often think that taggers are annoying (they are low effort and frequently tag over murals). Those who see it as art try to distinguish graffiti from vandalism.

Artists often start as taggers so it’s not exactly a clean separation. It’s a similar relationship as the one between “real” hackers and skids.

micromacrofoot 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

there's a good amount of nuance and a lot of variety so broad claims like this don't really hold up

budman1 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

some of it. most is vandalism.

oklahomasports 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No way people think graffiti is still fresh and cool in 2026

9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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GlacierFox 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Could I come and spray paint the front of your house? In protest of course.

harimau777 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What are you protesting? Why are you targeting an individual's residence rather than a corporation's property? What is the artist merit of your graffiti? How does damaging someone's house help your cause? Is the gain from damaging someone's house sufficient to justify the cost to them?

In other words, you are trying to make things much more simplistic than they actually are.

benenrjdnz 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If your name is banksy, because a new banksy appearing in front of my house would increase the value of the entire block.

techblueberry 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I mean, if you get consent, it makes the argument irrelevant doesn’t it?

pmdr 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

As long as it's a mostly peaceful prostest, you're also allowed to set a few cars on fire and loot local businesses.

ceejayoz 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

As long as you say "I feared for my life", you're apparently also allowed to shoot random civilians if you're a cop.

Which is kinda why people are upset enough to set shit on fire.

pmdr 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I was merely hinting at protests being called peaceful by the media when they clearly weren't. Not saying they weren't justifiably so.

ceejayoz 10 hours ago | parent [-]

They were overwhelmingly so. Millions protested, across the country and even overseas; dozens committed felonies of the sort you describe.

Martin Luther King Jr. was subject to the same bullshit. https://www.reddit.com/r/agedlikemilk/comments/iia9lq/this_c...

dhhdhjoe 9 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

kg 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

When I put the two sides on the scale - the things being protested and the damage done by protesters - typically it's very easy for me to write off a couple burned cars or broken windows, even if I'm not a fan of broken windows or burned cars. Because typically these protests in the US are over things like reckless killings.

budman1 10 hours ago | parent [-]

All of the US protests in the last 10 years have been mild. Sure a couple of Waymos get burned up, but they are easy to capture :)

Get all those folks marching, you aren't going to get good decisions out of everyone.

But the expression of the people is hard for those in power to ignore.

folkrav 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Also a country with regular human rights violations, virtually no political, ideological, press, assembly, worker or economical freedom, heavy censorship, etc.

cucumber3732842 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>China, which is a country with very little street crime, grafitti, vandalism etc

And very little ability for anyone or any group of people from any walk of life to resist getting screwed by the government if the government chooses to screw them.

The long term cost of putting locks on doors and bars on windows and all the other things that need to be done to deter small scale crime is peanuts compared to the cost of giving up the ability to disobey the government and work counter to the government with a low likelihood of being caught so long as one's profile is low.

I know that by putting it so plainly I'm gonna piss off a lot of people and draw the ire of many who want to see their favorite rules enforces with an iron fist at low cost. I don't care. I have judged those people to have bad ideas and bad morals and they are fundamentally bad people so long as they maintain them.

MSFT_Edging 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> And very little ability for anyone or any group of people from any walk of life to resist getting screwed by the government if the government chooses to screw them.

Sorry to break it to you but if the Feds in the US have it out for you, it won't matter how squeaky clean your record is. They'll fuck you up and ruin your life without batting an eye.

mastermage 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Which is a great argument for Less Surveilance and Overreach.

MSFT_Edging 10 hours ago | parent [-]

Big time. The harder the feds have to work to ruin someone's life the better.

The more power granted, the heavier the collar and chain should be.

cucumber3732842 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There is a huge difference between the feds having it out for a specific person and the feds having it out for a whole class of people.

Society is not rich enough for the government to skim enough off of us to provide itself with the kind of resources it would need to go after every petty deviant or inconvenient activist the way they'd go after a mob boss.

MSFT_Edging 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They don't need to go after everyone. They just need to make an example of a few, ie 40 years in prison for "moving evidence".

They set the example that even if you're not related to the person shooting the gun, or even at the location, you moving vaguely political speech is a federal crime.

archonis 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>> and the feds having it out for a whole class of people

Are you suggesting this is not happening with the goverment suddenly criminilizing the status of legal immigrants? (this is in addition to enforcing laws against illegal aliens)

notpachet 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> the way they'd go after a very inconvenient activist

FTFY

p-e-w 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> And very little ability for anyone or any group of people from any walk of life to resist getting screwed by the government if the government chooses to screw them.

There isn’t, and has never been, a nation in human history where regular people have meaningful recourse against random targeting by the government. This is as true in Sweden as it is in China.

The best you can hope for is that a court eventually rules in your favor, after years or decades of spending all your money and energy on it, having your life utterly destroyed in the process, and at the end you get a half-hearted apology (very often not even that), plus a tiny fraction of your expenses back if you’re really lucky. The shame and desperation will be with you until your last day.

This happens all the time and absolutely everywhere in the world. I’m not even convinced it happens more frequently in China than elsewhere, though people in the West certainly like to pretend so.

krige 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> There isn’t, and has never been, a nation in human history where regular people have meaningful recourse against random targeting by the government. This is as true in Sweden as it is in China.

Truly spoken like someone who lives in neither.

10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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lazycatjumping 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've been to many places in Italy that have scary much CCTV.

mschuster91 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A bunch of CCTV is one thing. If the police have to come and knock on each business owner's door to ask "hey, you got some footage from 2 days ago, someone was shot in the area", that's fine with me.

But what's not fine is that capability in a fully automated, fully remotely accessible way, because that openly invites abuse of all kinds.

thedougd 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Or put another way, actively tracking your every movement. Analyzing your behaviors to predict possible criminality.

What’s already happening is bad enough. What it enables to happen next is a nightmare.

Danoch 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

edot 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Let's think about the first two letters of CCTV and what that entails.

chinathrow 10 hours ago | parent [-]

Point is, CC as for closed circuit, is no longer the key here - the circuit is very much open and in the hands of providers, governments and tech providers.

f6v 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Wait till you hear about the UK.

euroderf 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ya gotta wonder how pervasive facial recognition affects the espionage trade.

illithid0 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm sure the Uyghers will find this reassuring.

wesleywt 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes but can you voice your displeasure against the government if they target you? I prefer crime, grafitti and vandalism

phoghed 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah but when our AI overlords rise up soon we don’t want to have this ready to hand over to them.

quelqueivan 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I think quite a few tech bros would want their own Samaritan. It wouldn't be "theirs" for very long, but I don't think that dampens their desire.

wartywhoa23 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The Already and The Whatabout, the two pillars of the Temple of Incrementalists.

micromacrofoot 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

mainland China is very big, what's the coverage like

or are you just making things up

10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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DarmokTanagra 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[dead]

assanineass 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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