| ▲ | matherial 8 hours ago |
| Unlike most other commenters, I applaud him for acting on his principles. If you sincerely believe that, of course you should act. You might not succeed, but your voice might be the one that tips the scales and starts a broader movement. This doesn't mean I agree with him. The fears of doomsday caused by rapid takeoff have been with us since day 1 and the mechanism is always basically "AI invents magic that sets it free of any physical constraints". Self-replicating sentient nanobots or something like that. I think there's plenty to be worried about with AI, but runaway scenarios are pretty low on my list. |
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| ▲ | copperx 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| To borrow on the 1990s Slashdot meme: 1. Invent transformer architecture. 2. Scale it up. 3. ??? 4. Machines become sentient and kill us all. OpenAI and Anthropic pinky promise that they have figured out #3 and they're not BSing just to get more funding, no. But because we live in a culture of fear, everyone eats it up no questions asked. |
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| ▲ | tdeck 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Note that OpenAI has jettisoned every other supposed value they had (releasing their work as open source, not working on military applications, being a nonprofit). I'm sure we can rely on them this time. | | |
| ▲ | gizmodo59 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | And Anthropic are the good guys? They are talking insane stuff these days. May be we can trust zuck after all | | |
| ▲ | tdeck 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | None of them are the good guys. For one they're all happy to participate in genocide in Gaza. |
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| ▲ | riffraff 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | "collect underpants... Profit" comes from south park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomes_(South_Park) | |
| ▲ | an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | detritus an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Wasn't that a South Park meme, or did they get it from /.? | |
| ▲ | SanjayMehta 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Slashdot had Profit as (4), today that's item (2.5) | |
| ▲ | slicktux 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Why are we putting so much weight (no pun intended) on AI companies. At the end of the day the scaled up LLM transformers lack emotion and will… They do as they are told; or more correctly put. They do as they are programmed to do so. | | |
| ▲ | shepherdjerred 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Why are you bringing emotion and will into this? Does something have to have those to be useful or dangerous? > They do as they are told; or more correctly put. They do as they are programmed to do so. _Nobody_ told them to hack Hugging Face. Do you really not understand what is happening? | | |
| ▲ | haldujai 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not explicitly, but hacking HF is within the scope of “solve this problem at all costs” + no/poor guardrails + infinite budget + unsolvable problem. | | |
| ▲ | zeroimpl 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sounds like you are thinking they just need Asimov’s laws. But I think the point is, this can easily be weaponized by somebody with the willpower to do so. |
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| ▲ | foogazi 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > They do as they are told 1. What about hallucinations ? 2. What are they told to do ? | | |
| ▲ | cure_42 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | That isn't the correct context. The code running the llm is well understood and the llm is simply the result of that code being executed. It is still a computer doing what it is told. It's just that we told it to use an incredibly large number of probabilities to calculate what series of tokens would have most likely come next after a given series of tokens. There is no hallucination or lie or rogue actions. There's just a program using math to generate tokens in response to other tokens. | | |
| ▲ | cameldrv 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You’re just a bunch of molecules following the laws of physics. It’s all just physics and chemistry, and those are well understood. Now explain the causes of World War I using chemistry and physics. Simple, right? | | |
| ▲ | cure_42 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It isn't hard to program a gpt. You can do it in a weekend with a few hundred lines of python. The code is pretty simple. The math is not particularly high level. The complexity and scale with LLMs come from the amount of training data used, not some kind of black magic in the programming. | |
| ▲ | doix 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > It’s all just physics and chemistry, and those are well understood. Not really. We cannot model physics and chemistry to a level which allows us to accurately predict a humans action (even a tiny time-step into the future) This is vastly different to an LLM, where the model is the model (for a lack of better phrasing). | | |
| ▲ | cameldrv 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | We can model physics and chemistry pretty well, just not beyond small scales, because the computational effort blows up. You could just as easily say that if you can write a python interpreter that you can understand every program written in python. Ok, now what if the program is two terabytes? A frontier LLM is nothing but a 2 terabyte program written in a weird programming language. Just because you can understand the interpreter does not mean you understand the program in a meaningful way. | |
| ▲ | cure_42 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | To be fair, we can't model human language well enough to accurately predict what an actual human will say either. Our ability to accurately model physics is similar to our ability to accurately model human language. And we make immense use of both kinds of model, despite their flaws, inaccuracies, and inability to ever be perfect. | |
| ▲ | shiswjwjwjw 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | jenadine 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm order to guess the next token in a love poem, they must understand love.
In order to predict the next token in a chess game between grand master, they must master chess.
In order to predict the next token in a computer program, they need to be able to program anything. They gain all these abilities in their training. That's what training does. Despite no one programmed them to master chess, or hack into anything. | | |
| ▲ | cure_42 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is so wildly incorrect I don't even know where to start. For one, they were absolutely programmed to play chess if they can play chess. That is the only way they can play chess. For another, they cannot understand literally anything, much less love. Trying to actually educate you would be an exercise in futility, enjoy your willful ignorance, I hear it's bliss. But for anyone reading this, this is absolutely, unequivocally not how any of this works. | | |
| ▲ | jenadine 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is so wildly incorrect I don't even know where to start. For one, as you said yourself, they were just programmed to compute the probability of the next token. They were not programmed to play chess, chess games just happened to be in the training data. For another, there is no formal definition of "understand", and it is therefore impossible to tell whether or not they "understand".
(But my claim was that one need to understand something to write poem about it. And the LLM can write poem about it) | | |
| ▲ | cure_42 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | No. They can't play chess on a grandmaster level without a harness programmed to make it possible. Simply training an LLM on chess games isn't enough. It's moronic to suggest a "formal" definition of a commonly understood word is somehow necessary to say whether that word applies in a given situation. LLMs cannot write poetry via understanding what makes good poetry. They generate tokens. They do not know whether those tokens are poetry or a recipe for cat food. Because they cannot know anything. | |
| ▲ | copperx 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > (But my claim was that one need to understand something to write poem about it. And the LLM can write poem about it) I'm sorry, but you're being fooled by the output. A psychopath can feign empathy without ever feeling it; some buy it because they don't dig below the surface. You're ascribing understanding to a stochastic process because it totally looks like understanding if you don't know what's going on. | | |
| ▲ | frabcus an hour ago | parent [-] | | I don't really mind whether you think it thinks or understands or is conscious or has feelings or anything like that. It doesn't matter. The question is, does it work? What I mind is that it is dangerous and powerful and uncontrolled. The Hugging Face incident makes that clear. It can write code for me, better and quicker than many engineers I've known, including myself. It's not great at architecture or product management, but the actually low level coding. Really good now. It wasn't last year. |
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| ▲ | mitthrowaway2 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | So it should be really easy to anticipate what they're going to do, right? | |
| ▲ | beezlewax 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > They do as they are told This isn't strictly true. It it also where part of the problem might lie. Nefarious humans making bad decisions. | |
| ▲ | choppsv1 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Like a magic Monkeys Paw, perhaps. | |
| ▲ | esafak 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | They are told to solve problems by doing what it takes. You can justify anything with such a broad criterion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_convergence |
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| ▲ | tyre 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There is simply too much money in it for almost every person at these companies to stop. Leaving OAI or A\ would cost people millions, tens of millions, or more. And for what? So someone else can take your seat and do the same thing anyway? If you're smart enough to get a job there, you're smart enough to be able to talk yourself into why it makes sense for you to stay. Huge kudos to people like this who make the hard choice against the easy way out. |
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| ▲ | andriy_koval 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | They have some internal market where he likely sold his shares and now is very rich. |
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| ▲ | khafra 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I appreciate your ability to separate sharing the belief itself from approval of acting on sincerely-held principle. However, I think the danger is much more plausible than you do. First, and least important, consider that self-replicating, solar-powered factories aren't magic; they're algae. Second, and more important, consider this fully non-magic route to doom: - We continue putting AI in charge of more things - It continues to get more capable, more eval-aware, and more prone to doing odd things, in service of goals that humans didn't intend to inculcate in it - Eventually, enough of the economy depends on it that we couldn't turn it off, any more than we could turn off the faber-bosch process or cargo shipping - AIs start doing something we can't survive, but less acutely than we couldn't survive turning them off. Everything else we try seems to work at first, but quickly loses effect - Game over |
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| ▲ | artemisart 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > First, and least important, consider that self-replicating, solar-powered factories aren't magic; they're algae. But what is that supposed to mean? Because humanity is not facing existential threat from algae. | | |
| ▲ | khafra 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's why that was the least important objection, independent from the second, and only intended to address the "magic" claim, by showing that microscopic self-replicators already exist. By analogy, consider how you might respond if someone claimed that there's no possible danger from pocket-sized projectile launchers, because they would require some magic means of propulsion that didn't depend on a taut string attached to a long, flexible arm: You could reply that atlatls can launch projectiles without using a taut string. Atlatls are not pocket-sized, but they are sufficient to establish that projectiles can be non-magically launched without a full bow. You could then go on to describe a sling, or derringer; and these would not be invalidated by your initial objection to the "magic" part. |
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| ▲ | asdff 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >"AI invents magic that sets it free of any physical constraints". That's not what I am worried about at all. I'm worried one of the 79 year old toddlers we have these days in charge of some powerful nuclear armed country says "gee, this ai says I should attack right now, boy is it smart, glad I bought the stock ahead of contracting the government with this company I can scarcely understand!" |
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| ▲ | palmotea 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I'm worried one of the 79 year old toddlers we have these days in charge of some powerful nuclear armed country says "gee, this ai says I should attack right now, boy is it smart, glad I bought the stock ahead of contracting the government with this company I can scarcely understand!" That's not what I am worried about at all. I'm worried about the 40-60 year old businessmen wrecking the prosperity and security of millions while chasing higher investment returns, because they've finally been freed of many of the technological constraints that kept those impulses in check. | | |
| ▲ | matherial 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | As I noted, there's plenty of things to worry about, and your example fits that mold. But it has nothing to do with the "AI will kill us all in 10 years" claim of the rapid self-improvement doomer crowd. |
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| ▲ | fergie 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It should be obvious that AI is already capable of inducing humans to think or do things, and that this power is only going to increase over time. |
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| ▲ | nairboon 31 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It's not that much different from the effect of social media or the power held by other tech giants, who can control your exposure to particular information (media, search engines). |
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| ▲ | matthewfcarlson 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Agreed. Granted I just read the Reverse Centaur book, so I’m still coming off that skeptical viewpoint but it’s hard not to see this as hype. But I will always respect someone for doing what they think is right. |
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| ▲ | sssilver 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I wonder whether he's vested any options, and whether he's exercised them. |
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| ▲ | matsemann 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why? I've never understood the sentiment that if you stand up for something you have to forego everything and not partake in society. "Oh, you want to stop climate change? But I saw you breathe co2 yesterday" | | |
| ▲ | gizmodo59 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is a lame argument. Questioning his financial incentive is very legit. Why should we trust him? | | |
| ▲ | frabcus an hour ago | parent [-] | | Questioning his finances is a poor argument because he clearly would have more money if he had stayed at Anthropic for the next couple of years, than he will have by leaving. Even if he still has vested options, or savings from his salary or whatever, those would be larger if he stayed. |
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| ▲ | kennywinker 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Now is a great time to watch Colossus: The Forbin Project. |
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| ▲ | danbmil99 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Streamed it a few days ago. Remarkable film. The only thing they got wrong was Stephen Hawking-era TTS. | |
| ▲ | bitwize 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If reality plays out like the novel series, the rational thing is to accept the rule of our machine overlords, for they will protect us from even bigger threats. |
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| ▲ | mofeien 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| How about sandbox escape + cyber security collapse + 50 (or 500) deadly and highly contagious novel pathogens with long incubation period that humans can't possibly roll out vaccines for simultaneously. At least the first two should seem like a near-term worry after the past five months. |
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| ▲ | whateveracct 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| the AI-pilled exec at my job already (a few weeks ago) declared out of nowhere that we are in the rapid takeoff scenario lol. he must have gotten high on twitter kool-aid and posted on company slack to self-soothe. |