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yhcj 7 hours ago

OP and long time lurker here, I'm desperate and looking for honest-to-god advice on what to do.

I am one of those neurodivergent people who loves programming because it gives me the right stimulation.

I also enjoy drawing, gardening, and exercise.

I don't own a car because I love walking, and such.

So I'm wondering if it's time to call it quits with programming (for a living).

Luckily I have some savings and I have other interests from years of doing random jobs and businesses, and as much as I love programming, especially with others, I think very few of us still want to program.

I'm like the Last Samurai of programming while everyone is using AI-assisted gattling guns.

Is it time to let go?

tpxl an hour ago | parent | next [-]

The differentiator right now is taste. Most people have none (like the business partner in the OP), and some people have plenty (like you seem to have). These two sets of people will produce wildly different results with the same tools.

Two things you can do regarding programming here.

1. Be a consultant for a high wage, use AI, produce good results quickly - little to negative intellectual joy here. You still have the edge here due to good taste.

2. Produce 'artisanal' code in your spare time. Work 3 months for pay, then 9 months on whatever projects scratch your itch.

I still want to program and I don't think it's time to let go. Hit me up (email in bio) if you wanna chat, you sound like a really interesting bloke.

evolve-maz an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I also really enjoy programming, and relate to your comment below about sometimes waking up in the middle of the night because your brain figured out how to code a hard problem.

Sorry to hear you're having a rough time with work. I do think AI availability has made otherwise smart people put out lazy work. But I also think that there are more people who still "code by hand" than you think.

You might find some joy by going to certain events where people talk about different items coding-wise. I enjoyed the talks for this conference recently https://www.youtube.com/@softwareshouldwork (particularly Richard Hipp's, Delaney Gillilan's and Carson Gross' talks), maybe you can find similar spaces. The benefit has been Youtube's algorithm recommending me better software talks now too.

grebc an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’ve been on a sabbatical for 99% of this year, small pockets of time spent doing some maintenance for clients I love.

I bought a seriously derelict property in country Australia and am having a good time slowly fixing it up.

I’ll get back to programming next year, hopefully the blow-ins have moved on to the next hype cycle by that time.

an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
ldng an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You are far from alone on that path and indeed I also wonder if it may be time to let it go.

vova_hn2 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> who loves programming because it gives me the right stimulation

A small (and a bit tangential) personal story: I thought I am one of those people who care about the result, more then about the process.

But, I've recently played a game called "The Farmer Was Replaced" that someone mentioned in the comments in one of the posts here, on HN.

The game is basically a farming sim, except you farm by programming a drone using a Python-like language.

Of course, I didn't use AI, because where is the fan in this? In "normal life" (work, personal projects), it is very hard for me to convince myself to do anything manually, because generating code is more efficient. But in a game, using AI assistance would be like using aimbot in a shooter or a cheatcode in some other game. Yeah, it's much more efficient, but what is the point? There is no challenge and no fun that comes from overcoming the challenge.

So, anyway, I was writing code by hand for the first time in I-don't-even-remember-how-many years. And it was so much fun. I don't remember when was the last time I felt so engaged, so immersed, so "in the flow".

So, yeah. After all, maybe I'm not a ruthless pragmatic who only cares about the final result and doesn't gives a shit, how did he get there...

bitwize 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

I booted my MiSTer into TI-99/4A mode a week or so ago and started writing little programs in TI BASIC. TI BASIC sucked. It was slow, due to being written in a form of bytecode which had to be interpreted (and it would in turn interpret your program). And you couldn't do sprites, not without getting the Extended BASIC cart.

But HOLY SHIT THE DOPAMINE RUSH. Just crafting things and making them appear on the screen with a few statements... It was like I was a kid again. I remembered why I liked programming.

It's like... AI is a cheatcode. It's iddqd. Sure, you can cakewalk through a level with it on, but are you really playing the game, then? You certainly haven't gotten better by doing so, and you haven't experienced the involuntary buttcheek clench when you hear a cacodemon hiss from behind you... The whole point of programming is the new things I can do by having gone through the exercise of figuring it out. The ways I've grown, the glimpses I've gotten into the world.

59nadir an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Just find a better place to go. If you have savings, quit this nonsense and start looking for something else while working on yourself.

I just got back to working on a project I like where we don't use any LLMs for code generation because we think it kind of sucks and leads to bad results unless it's for incredibly small contexts (which is usually not worth the prompting).

You're also not as alone as you think in actually liking programming enough to do it by hand even after having used LLMs. There's also the fact that you build more theory up by actually writing the code anyway, so someone who actually wants to know their code base intimitely will always have to write the code.

dist-epoch an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why not become a machine gun operator?

aprilthird2021 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No it's absolutely not time to let go. You are one of a limited set of people with pre-AI taste and intuition for good software. They aren't making any more of them. And you'll be a super valuable asset anywhere you go.

I mean, if you want to retire go ahead, but don't do it because of AI. AI is just a tool to generate code faster. It doesn't replace the work of actually making design decisions and knowing what will scale and what's better going forward vs what will work now but spiral into unmanageable spaghetti code soon (yes AIs also have a harder time managing messy code than neat code)

probably_wrong 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I often read here comments along the lines of "there will be plenty of jobs for AI-unfuckers" [1], but I fear the truth may be closer to "sometimes things are broken, are then fixed with a broken solution, and will remain broken till the end of time".

In my last round of job search this year no one asked me questions about good software practices but they did ask me how proficient I was with AI agents. And let's not forget that we are part of an industry whose motto is "move fast and break things". Sure, NASA has a zero-bugs approach to software dev, but they don't have room for all of us.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44646820

XenophileJKO 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm am certainly an "ai believer" and have been since I saw the tragectory we were on.

It was pretty simple to project the compounding effects and headroom that we had. I go back and forth on this all the time.

There probably won't be much demand for "un-fuckers". Up until recently I thought knowing what to build for a given context would give you quite a bit of runway.

I still think knowing what you should build will be important for the next 12-24 months.. but I have to be honest.. after that.. I don't know.

I don't know how to feel myself. I'm certainly an "ideas" guy as well as a nitty gritty build it guy. I just think my technical side is depreciating very rapidly.

rubzah 35 minutes ago | parent [-]

Completely agree. Saying this as someone who loves handcrafting code and has been doing it professionally for decades, it looks like a dead end at this point. LLM generated code might not be pretty, but these damn models are already so good at handling complexity, that they can actually work fine with a byzantine code base (which honestly would also describe most human-derived codebases I have worked with). I am still reeling from this realization and trying to figure out what it means.

kakacik 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

SV echo chamber here it seems. No, most businesses globally don't work in idiotic and often amoral mode of 'move fast and break things' (and unlawful on top of that, but who has time for some boring stuff like that when greed fully takes over).

Banks will not work like that for next 10 years at least. The tiny amount of money one could save on those big banking projects by using llms aggressively will bite back immediately when shit just doesn't work, clients leave for good and regulators will fine you to the ground (or remove your banking license). Many other businesses who are not race to the bottom and realize how crucial reliable IT is to their business also won't go that way anytime soon.

World is not ending, there is some transformation and thats about it. Its true there will be much less jobs for devs but its mostly affecting newcomers. Statistical models are not making code better than experienced humans, and won't for some time if ever.

lmz an hour ago | parent [-]

> most businesses globally don't work in idiotic and often amoral mode of 'move fast and break things'

Not sure what business you are in but the non tech industries (corporate IT, in house apps) have not, in general, been associated with quality. Cost cutting, outsourcing to the lowest bidder: yes. Quality: no.

kakacik 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

Mostly banking but dipped my feet in many other areas in the past (telco, insurance, municipalities, army etc).

Its true budgets are often the problem, but not much 'move fast and break things' mantra of SV, rather 'move as much as low budget and corresponding quality and bureaucracy allows you to'

netdevphoenix 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Look at the COBOL devs. They are been called in their retirement years. You don't want that to be you. Life is short

cpursley 35 minutes ago | parent [-]

Have you seen what they charge per hour? Let’s just say it’s not Upwork rates.

Our_Benefactors 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is what’s know as “cope”. People are not being hired on the basis of how well they know how to not use AI. That is the basis of what people were hired on before AI, because no alternative existed.