| ▲ | eru an hour ago |
| People have objected to training their replacements since forever. Younger people, foreigners, now machines. What else is new? I don't think you are under any moral or ethical obligation to train your replacement. But I don't think the decision makes much of a difference one way or another in the grand scheme of things. > You may ask: Why would anyone agree to train an AI model in the very skills they took years to acquire? If they could actually do it, I would be all over it! If you can save humanity from having to spend years acquiring these skills and judgements, they can do something else with their lives. |
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| ▲ | vintermann 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| They could, but will they get the chance to? My most commercially valuable skills - software wrangling, figuring out what went wrong, explaining how to do things in software - are rapidly getting obsoleted by agents. But I'm not too sad about it, because honestly? I hated a lot of that work. Endless frustration with finding out what went wrong, sometimes in an architecture you argued strongly against, etc. Watching the AI agent "thinking" scroll by and seeing it get "frustrated" instead of me, is honestly a relief. But what is it going to do for my career, middle-term? I have a few years of head start on most people on using many forms of AI, but who knows what's that going to be worth? |
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| ▲ | unleashhale an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Just like how the car gave us back so many more hours to spend actually living instead of working. And the washing machine. And the computer. And the Internet. |
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| ▲ | eru an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | The washing machine and dishwasher definitely did. I don't own a car, so I can't comment on that. | | |
| ▲ | raincole an hour ago | parent [-] | | They release women from housekeeping... to workplaces. | | |
| ▲ | yen223 2 minutes ago | parent [-] | | You should ask a working woman if she'd rather be at home doing dishes and laundry by hand without pay |
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| ▲ | arjie an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | All of these things have been marvelous. The washing machine in particular is such a marvel that almost all Amish use one. | | |
| ▲ | left-struck 41 minutes ago | parent [-] | | While our time working at home has definitely gone down, our time at work hasn’t though. The point is our employers just expect more, and the benefits of whatever new efficiency is gained, if any, are not passed onto those at the bottom or middle. | | |
| ▲ | hakimg 34 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Hours spent at work have also gone down over the decades and leisure time has gone up. Even if that stat wasn't true and we all spent the same amount of time working more productively then that would still be good for society at large. This attitude of unwillingness to do anything except for direct personal gain isn't good for the world and isn't good for yourself. | |
| ▲ | jaggederest 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is the fault of the distribution of the benefits, not of the technologies themselves, at least in so far as they don't actively accelerate the shift of value from labor to capital. Washing machines reduce drudgery no matter who owns them. |
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| ▲ | seanmcdirmid 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Increased productivity is nothing to sneeze at even if you work the same amount of hours. The real problem with AI is that the productivity benefits are focused with the owners and not the workers. | | |
| ▲ | eru 2 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > The real problem with AI is that the productivity benefits are focused with the owners and not the workers. What makes you think so? What evidence do we have one way or another? |
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| ▲ | qsera an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | >actually living... Watching TV...Or consuming social media.. | | |
| ▲ | eru a minute ago | parent [-] | | Who am I to judge what other people decide to do with their freetime. It's not like lurking on HN is morally superior. |
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| ▲ | consp 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > I don't think you are under any moral or ethical obligation to train your replacement. Depending on where you live, there might not even be a legal obligation. |
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| ▲ | eru a minute ago | parent [-] | | Details likely depend on whatever contract you are signing. |
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| ▲ | discreteevent an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > they can do something else with their lives. Let them eat cake. |
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| ▲ | eru an hour ago | parent [-] | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake That phrase was born as a straw man. | | |
| ▲ | jojobas an hour ago | parent [-] | | The argument against "they can do something else with their lives" is not a strawman though. In a hypothetical end state where the people who own fully-automated production of everything, and need maybe few millions employed to support and guard that production, the "freed" people are not going to do something better with their lives. | | |
| ▲ | palmotea 25 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > In a hypothetical end state where the people who own fully-automated production of everything, and need maybe few millions employed to support and guard that production, the "freed" people are not going to do something better with their lives. AI will bring about a post-scarcity society, just not for you, worker. |
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| ▲ | thin_carapace an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I don't want to attack your good faith in humanity, so I will ask another way - if a system was reliant on workers, what reason would there be for those workers to exist , after their work became automated? |
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| ▲ | seanmcdirmid 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Why do humans need to work to exist? We just need a new model for existing that isn’t based on labor. We should have started working on these problems in 2016 when it was obvious they were coming, but we elected a regressive twice to help us go backwards instead. | |
| ▲ | eru an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Workers are humans. Humans don't need any system's permission or reasoning to exist. If you've ever been laid off or fired, you might have noticed that you don't cease to exist when your contract ends. | | |
| ▲ | OKRainbowKid an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | You may however notice that your existence might be cut short if you don't have access to food, shelter, medical treatments, because "the system" eventually has no incentive to provide for you anymore, because your labor is now worthless to capital. | |
| ▲ | 63stack 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Most people's existence are very strongly tied to their job. Not being able to pay basic utilities and food just the first examples. Obviously, nobody is going to blip out of existence when their layoff notice is signed, everyone knows this and nobody claimed that. If you stepped down from your philosophical post humanist highchair a bit, you would realize that. | |
| ▲ | thin_carapace an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | well i brought up the system for a reason, human existence is relative to the system in which humans exist. are there any examples of humans being systematically supported when their class of labor ceased to exist on a widespread scale? if so, did those supportive aspects spontaneously manifest? all in all, would such insights apply to a more widespread scenario, where the affected labor classes are all those involving human computer interaction? | |
| ▲ | vrganj an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You do cease to exist once you don't get access to food, water or health care long enough. Think just a little past the most direct consequence - let me rephrase GP's question: What reason would the ownership class have to provide these necessities to workers when they no longer require their work? | |
| ▲ | hatefulheart an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Presumably the stress one endures when their way of life is challenged significantly is life changing. Not that you’d care though, by the sounds of it. |
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| ▲ | nosedivedcaptai an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | vrganj an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > If you can save humanity from having to spend years acquiring these skills and judgements, they can do something else with their lives. In theory, yes. In practice, no. Not until we replace our entire socioeconomic system. As-is, the only reason most people can extract an existence from capital is capital's dependence on labor. Break that dependence and the entire thing breaks, capital becomes a self-sustaining flywheel towards feudalism and everyone who currently depends on labor for their survival loses the foundation of their existence. Only once we fundamentally change ownership structures can we work towards your vision. Until then, it is a false piper to dystopia. |