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ricardobeat 2 days ago

> We won the debate, and gained little for users or developers. All that our efforts did was to make it easier for big corporations build things more cheaply and for billionaires to become trillionaires.

As a long-time developer and consumer of OSS I have to disagree. Open-source software has had an enormous effect on the world, and that... was kind of the point? When we licensed things as MIT we knew that corporations would use it. We wanted them to use them, adopt them and bring new users into the community. You take some, you give back. There was no expectation of turning your late-afternoons JS framework into a business. And not having access to it would absolutely not have stopped corporate behemoths from getting where they are, but would have killed many small businesses and startups.

That said, I've started licensing some of my code with the BUSL license [1] - unrestricted use, unless you are a large company. The code becomes MIT-licensed automatically after a set window to remove maintainability concerns.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Source_License

zelphirkalt 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

The complaint here is, that those business are not necessarily "bringing people into the community", unless you are talking about passive users, who do not contribute. The businesses simply use the stuff built at no cost to rake in big money, while the person, who did the actual work does not see a cent. This is different with copyleft licenses like AGPL. Only that many businesses are so afraid of contributing anything at all, that they often don't want to use AGPL or even GPL licensed software.

LtWorf 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

But why should I work for free so that companies can fire my fellow human beings?

brainwad 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

The causality is wrong here. You chose to work for free with no reward, and _then_ companies found your work and used it. Presumably you started out working for free because it was intrinsically rewarding (otherwise: stop doing work you hate for free?).

LtWorf 2 days ago | parent [-]

I chose to do it for free to help other people. And picking a MIT license does the opposite.

brainwad 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Why? MIT license or public domain helps the most people, because anyone can use it. It being usable by corporations is purely additive, it can't subtract from the number of people you'd help with a copyleft license.

LtWorf 2 days ago | parent [-]

Putting people out of jobs doesn't necessarily help them?

knorker 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Huh? You release code so that people will have to rewrite it?

I really don't understand what your goal would be in releasing code at all, then.

LtWorf 2 days ago | parent [-]

Did you read my comment or you just reply for the sake of it?

I release the code so that people and companies that feel like contributing to the community can use it. Companies that want to take without giving back however are mildly inconvenienced by copyleft.

ghaff 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

How? If they don't make (and distribute) changes.

LtWorf 2 days ago | parent [-]

Because they cannot distribute the software itself or use it for online services with AGPL

ghaff 2 days ago | parent [-]

Distributing (however defined by a given license) unmodified software that is presumably widely available to customers may be a requirement but is also a profoundly uninteresting legal requirement.

LtWorf a day ago | parent [-]

https://opensource.google/documentation/reference/using/agpl...

ghaff a day ago | parent [-]

I don't think we're disagreeing about anything. I wasn't giving a legal opinion but lawyers, especially at large firms, are a lot more conservative about some matters than I might be for a personal project. If you have deep pockets and provide any path to those pockets, someone could sue you.

I used to work for a very open source-friendly company and, while AGPL wasn't broadly verbotten and I can't quote any publicly available documents, its use was not encouraged in general. (And outside of Linux which was what it was, permissive licenses became much more common for new projects.)

knorker a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Could you please take my question at face value?

> I chose to do it for free to help other people. And picking a MIT license does the opposite.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. I want to help other people, then giving them the means to do what they want with no real restrictions is "the opposite" of that?

> Companies that want to take without giving back

So this is not about helping anyone else, but about mandating a behavior, even if that behavior is "pay it forward".

2 days ago | parent | prev [-]
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