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agentultra an hour ago

> just about everything in modern life, from streaming Netflix to running a dishwasher, consumes water at levels that can be portrayed as wasteful by hair-shirt environmentalists.

Ad-hominems in an Economist article. This reads more like an opinion piece than reporting. There are plenty of documented problems with water usage of data centres. Some can use it efficiently but it costs more to do so and many (most?) do not.

We are also in a time when most people would prefer to use that water for drinking, washing, cleaning… basically anything except data centres.

Don’t think many people are going to read this and think, “Gosh, I was a fool!”

bigbadfeline 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> Ad-hominems in an Economist article.

As expected - that source rarely publishes anything else. Here's another pearl [1], where they're rejoicing over the kettle's burned color.

In both cases The Economist is totally blind about the economic foundations of the problems and there's no hint of a solution.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49580174 America has a whopping debt. But Europe has the whopping debt problem

sanbor an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Using a dishwasher can be up to 5x more water-efficient than hand washing. Hand washing one load of dishes can use 20 gallons of water, whereas water- and energy-efficient dishwashers may use as little as four gallons.[1]

[1]: https://www.kitchenaid.com/pinch-of-help/major-appliances/di...

goodmythical an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Can is doing an awful lot of heaving lifting there.

Given that my sink cannot contain 20 gallons of water and that I do not even fill my sink full to do my dishes by hand, I cannot possibly be using 20 gallons of water to do my dishes when I do my dishes by hand.

lostmsu an hour ago | parent [-]

You don't rinse them after washing?

polotics an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

it really depends how you do it, I don't think one serious non biased study has ever been done. probably an ultrasound bath is the most energy and water-efficient method

westurner 3 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> We are also in a time when most people would prefer to use that water for drinking, washing, cleaning… basically anything except data centres.

That is not what is indicated by consumer behavior.

Though it isn't healthiest, people prefer sugar water and so the sugar water companies have been able to afford to acquire water rights and they have driven up the cost of water.

Drilling holes through aquifers and not capping them, over-grazing and over-tilling, and wasteful industry production processes have driven up the cost of water.

Given a low-enough energy cost and basically unlimited salt water from the oceans, we shouldn't be out of water. There should not be coastal water scarcity.

Golf course, chip factory, almonds, fracking, lawns, swimming pools, or purple pipe golf course water?

bloaf an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If people really cared about water usage, they'd be trying to shut down golf courses instead of data centers.

ok123456 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

People have. That's a common objection to golf courses.

The difference here is that data centers are both economically and environmentally extractive. People in the community, or at least in the surrounding area, will play golf there. Data centers are purely extractive, and that's why they have become so galvanizing. It's transferring probably the only real asset these communities have left, their open spaces, directly to the elite.

milkshakes an hour ago | parent [-]

> data centers are purely extractive

please, tell me more

> people in the community, or at least in the surrounding area, will play golf there

going to go out on a limb here and guess that net-net, a datacenter provides more benefits to a broader spectrum of society than a golf course does.

ok123456 an hour ago | parent [-]

That is quite a limb to go out on.

What is the exact value proposition of AI as it exists right now for the average person who lives where these things are being built? They don't even get jobs. With golf, they can enjoy the outdoors and escape a little bit.

goodmythical 43 minutes ago | parent [-]

I'm not entirely certain, but I think a data center might just provide more temporary and permanent jobs than a golf course, and with likely higher mean and median wages.

The golf park isn't even the best natural-adjacent use of the space.

A regular park or a trail will service a significantly larger portion of the population than a private property that transfers wealth from the community to a single person or corporation.

xboxnolifes an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There has been tons of reported frustration with golf courses in the past. So, yes, people have, and it's pretty consistent here as well.

bloaf an hour ago | parent [-]

I've not seen a single politician calling for statewide bans on golf courses.

Its pretty obvious here that people decided datacenters were bad first, then went looking for justifications second.

xboxnolifes 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

Go look up articles from mid to late 2010s. There's where you will find frustration about golf courses, during the time where water restrictions were being put on residential lawns. Do not conflate the more recent, more successful campaign of anti-data-center sentiment with the non-existence of a past campaign against golf courses. It existed, it just petered out.

bloaf 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

Look, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Either water consumption is a problem today, or it is not. If it is a problem, then golf courses are today a better target for people who want to solve the water problem than data centers. If water consumption is not a problem, then the data center's water consumption is not a problem.

bdangubic 7 minutes ago | parent [-]

if we limit the number of data centers so that it cannot exceed number of golf courses in any zipcode in america than this is a solid argument, otherwise it is strawman

agentultra an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why not both?

Onavo an hour ago | parent [-]

True but not campaigning against golf courses make anti data center campaigns look hypocritical.

My personal criticism of data centers is mostly regulatory failure. The tech companies are choosing random ass states and stealing land from poor farmers instead of the traditional data center states like Virginia mostly because of tax breaks. The local government is just as if not more responsible for the issues with data centers. It's easy however to just point fingers at big tech instead of he underlying market failures in a lot of the states. The traditional data center states almost always have a supply of clean energy and water with a proper regulatory framework.

thrance an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

The left has long been opposed to excessively watered golf courses too. I could probably find another piece of The Economist calling them foolish for that as well, if I searched.

hypfer an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Either I'm blind or it also doesn't say who wrote it.

But it does offer AI narration.

dbdoug an hour ago | parent | next [-]

From the Economist website: "ALL writers at The Economist are anonymous."

hypfer an hour ago | parent [-]

TIL

tolerance an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is this your first time reading The Economist?

hypfer an hour ago | parent [-]

Not that, but the first time paying attention to these details, as previously, I saw no need to do so based on what I've read.

tolerance an hour ago | parent [-]

That's not good.

hypfer an hour ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

hbn an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I see that they themselves call it "AI narration"

Are we calling TTS "AI" now?

goodmythical 40 minutes ago | parent [-]

Have you not noticed the proliferation of renaming every single machine learning algorithm as artifical intelligence?

People have artificially intelligent vaccuums these days.

Gander5739 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> This reads more like an opinion piece than reporting.

That is the style of articles (interpretive analysis) that The Economist does.

colordrops an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

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