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dbingham 3 hours ago

Lots of people asking "Why?". They say so right on their site: There are big changes happening in the technology industry and they are acting pro-actively to ensure the workers have a strong collective voice in the ways the foundation chooses to respond to those changes.

"The Wikimedia Foundation and the broader technology and nonprofit sectors are navigating a period of significant change. From rapid advances in artificial intelligence to evolving organizational priorities and external pressures, and changing patterns of readership and discovery, the decisions being made today will shape our workplace for years to come. Our union members believe this is the right moment to establish a lasting, legally recognized voice in those conversations. Rather than waiting until difficult decisions are made, we are organizing now to help build a stronger Foundation that can meet future challenges through collaboration, transparency, and shared stewardship."

https://wikiworkersunited.org/faq/

Arubis 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is the right move. Unionise when things are good enough that labor can take a hit and keep standing, or when they’re so bad that people might actually die. Either way labor has a strong BATNA.

Right now a lost of software work is kinda in the middle; it’s not very secure and labor isn’t confident and doesn’t have a lot of great, easy alternatives, but by and large getting food on the table tomorrow isn’t an open question.

bitshiftfaced 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> or when they’re so bad that people might actually die

Care to elaborate? Am I understanding correctly that the implication here is that there is some condition for which a software engineer having a union agreement could prevent that worker from dying?

Arubis an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, certainly: the ability to say “no” to abusive labor conditions without risk of irreversibly losing any source of income while living in a society that treats lack of income as deserving of whatever pains and suffering come with it.

The word “any” is doing a lot of work here—I’m implying a denylist or “social credit score” or other way of persisting punishment against an individual beyond mere job loss.

You’re right that we’re not there right now. We’re in the wide middle and still closer to the “we have lots of bargaining power because we’re in demand” end of the continuum—_directionally_ it does not feel that way, but we don’t have a ton of folks dying of Boolean lung in the code mines. But I’d not rule out the possibility. The range of possible human experiences is vast.

aliasxneo 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

> living in a society that treats lack of income as deserving of whatever pains and suffering

What does the opposite society look like? Universal income?

NewJazz 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Or prevent that worker's work output from killing innocent, uh... Externalities. Folks. Animals. Ecosystems.

cyanydeez 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

mmooss 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Also, there are allegations of adversarial management behavior. I can't find the link now, but some background:

https://www.wired.com/story/wikipedia-workers-vote-on-whethe...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49143414

https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikitech-l@lists...

PorciiVorbesc 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Can someone explain why do they need a union when they work for a non-profit? Aren't they mostly volunteers?

From my experience in my youth volunteering at animal shelters and environmental protection groups, you never volunteer for a non-profit for the money or the job stability, but you do it for the mission and the satisfaction of being the change you want to be in the world, even if that means living off ramen and beans and couch surfing. Especially given these are cushy jobs done from the PC via the internet without needing to physically get your hands dirty or break your back in poor working conditions, which a lot of other young well intended and ambitious people in the world would like to do, even for free.

Everything I've been reading in the last few years about wikipedia's management, article moderation decisions, political side-taking, and how they spend their donations has been very fish smelling and off-putting. It's like there's a malicious Hydra in the basement, wearing the Wikipedia name I grew up with as a skin suit, to advance their goals and agendas. Very fishy. But it does feel like this is the inevitable faith of a lot of old and famous non-profits over time, as the gray-beard founding staff leave and get replaced by people who don't share the same values and mission, but have their own agendas and wish to co-opt the established name brand and influence that comes with it to push it. IDK if this unionisation push is for good or for bad since I'm not a fly on the wall at the internal meetings to know the internal drama and gossip, but I do remain skeptical about what's going on at the WMF.

Like maybe the union is well intended today, but will it be the same in 10-20 years with that power? What protection are in place they don't misuse it? For a global repository of knowledge like Wikipedia, I'd much prefer the staff be constantly changing with new ambitious innocent blood, rather than have an entrenched gerontocracy protected by a powerful union, since from my historical knowledge I've never seen that end well long term since long reign and absolute power corrupts.

My 0,02$.

philipov an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Nonprofit doesn't mean you don't pay your employees. Nonprofits earn and spend money like any other corporation, including paying permanent fulltime staff. Not everything can be done by volunteers. What they don't do is reward their investors with a cut of earnings above expenses.

vjvjvjvjghv an hour ago | parent [-]

You can make some serious money working at nonprofits.

codersfocus 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

See OpenAI

NewJazz 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They are not mostly volunteers. Editors are largely volunteers, but administration and development is very much a financed pursuit.

The nonprofit board can provide some oversight, but bringing workers voices to the table can provide additional perspective.