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radu_floricica 21 hours ago

I'm mostly stopped feeling autistic since adolescence, but climate change is one of those times. It's obviously real, and it's also obvious that shuffling chairs in developing countries is rounding to zero effect. We're converting to cleaner energy anyways because of pollution and better economics, so the push for decarbonization in itself is... what do you call a rounding error when it's already rounding to zero?

And it's FAR from hopeless. Again, global warming is obviously happening. But the amount of adapting and reacting to it is virtually nil. Installing AC. Tree cover in every city. Start serious discussions on what level of risk we want with geoengineering.

Because yes, there absolutely is an acceptable risk level with geoengineering. Planting trees is that. Carbon capture is also that. And better and more effective tech will definitely be available.

But we're in a social climate where I don't even dare write down examples of what those more effective methods would be, because if you're not luddite enough you're the enemy.

mym1990 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm not going to lie, and this is not meant as an insult, but I could not comprehend what a single sentence here is trying to say.

margalabargala 20 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I didn't find it particularly inaccessible, and I do agree with most of the points made.

Maybe try giving it a second pass?

hectdev 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They're saying "I can see logical ways we can deal with this but the common folk are afraid of technology and change"

radu_floricica 20 hours ago | parent [-]

More like "it's not socially acceptable to discuss alternatives to orthodoxy", but yes.

lII1lIlI11ll 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree with your message overall, but this kind of, I dunno, martyrdom posturing ("But we're in a social climate where I don't even dare write down examples of what those more effective methods would be, because if you're not luddite enough you're the enemy.", "it's not socially acceptable to discuss alternatives to orthodoxy") is funny to see on HN. This is not Xitter or Reddit, no one is going to ban or attempt to dox you and get you fired for saying "We should seriously consider injecting reflective stuff into stratosphere" here. In fact, your message will likely even have a positive rating overall.

breakyerself 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When you find yourself stuck in a hole the first step to solving the problem is to stop digging. We're still digging at a superhuman speed. Meanwhile here you are talking about how you aren't worried because ladder building technology is really coming along, but nobody wants to talk about ladders.

spwa4 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Because if I can do nothing and make you do it, you solve it for me, for free. They'll make some argument (like western nations having used up the energy (and paid for it), and want to make them pay for it again. For a lot of countries that, and nothing else, is the purpose of climate action). Now get to work, taxpayer!

Because for most countries (and certainly for the largest oil producer in the world, Russia), global warming saves greatly on winter fuel use and increases agricultural harvests AND allows them to keep their population happy (because nothing keeps populations calm like cheap fuel/energy). That is the net effect, today.

Because for a lot of countries that really are the beneficiaries of causing global warming, ie. the oil producer countries, Russia, Saudi Arabia, US, Venezuela, Norway, and many small ones Azerbeidjan, causing global warming (ie. selling fossil fuels) is often the only reason they have an economy (mostly all except the US). So they demand a LOT of money, for free, to stop it. And nobody will pay that.

The last argument even goes for countries that are not direct oil or coal producers, like India or China but it's effectively the same argument (China runs on coal, and the country works on exports. Without energy no exports, so their coal usage is still increasing. Ie. same argument as above, they only have an economy because they're causing global warming, just more indirectly than Saudi Arabia)

Because WW2 was won with oil, and so countries that either want to start a war ("or fear they'll be the target/victims of the next big war") want access to oil. This argument goes especially for China, who fear they'll be targeted/"victimized" when they attack half of Asia starting with Taiwan and to a lesser extent for India (who feel they'll be at war with Pakistan, and Bangladesh whether they want to or not, and maybe China too) and even for EU countries (ie. for the ones that matter, France and Germany)

Look up China's oil reserves. You'll be collecting your jaw from the floor, I promise.

Summary: because most governments care about various things ... and not at all about people, about you. Mostly governments not even about their own people and certainly not about the climate where you live. They have a million concerns, a lot of which require fossil fuels, and for the people that compose those governments, climate change just doesn't matter.

Plus, if they can just do nothing, you still have to solve global warming. So doing nothing, aside from being very profitable, is also a great tactic to get you to fix it.

m00dy 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Can you explain what 'Luddite' means in a broader context? Not all of us grew up learning British history :)

radu_floricica 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In the context of climate change, it is the opinion that more industrialization and technologization cannot help solving the problem, except in a few narrow acceptable directions (solar, wind, hydrogen etc).

An example would be the european reaction to AC. It's a way of using technology to solve warming, its costs are perfectly acceptable, but it is still frown upon because... well, it's beyond the scope of a HN comment to diagnose why, but it's an example of technology being able to mitigate a problem but not being allowed to.

Tade0 16 hours ago | parent [-]

> An example would be the european reaction to AC.

That was over hyped in the media, particularly American.

It's largely senior citizens who oppose AC - they've spent most of their lives in a different climate and would rather not have to handle such an expense.

Meanwhile in some European countries like France demand for AC units doubled this year.

21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
reilly3000 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Luddite: someone who is against using technology out of fear (of economic opportunities mostly)

steve_adams_86 20 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah, important to note that the way the label is used has deviated from its historic meaning. Colloquially it’s something like “someone who rejects new technology” with variable reasons as to why, but historically there’s more nuance and it’s grounded in rejection of technology which worsens working conditions, detracts from craft, and disrupts cottage industry/workers rights/wages/etc. They made more sense than the label presently suggests they did. I suppose you could think of them as activists protecting their crafts and trade privileges that were being undermined by specific machines and their owners

notarobot123 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

More generously: someone who resists new technologies due to their perceived harmful effects (economic but also social and environmental)