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collingreen 21 hours ago

Your framing, that no collective action can ever include reduction or sacrifice, implies this is an inevitable and fatal path we cannot come back from.

I hope you are wrong that nothing requiring sacrifice can ever be accomplished.

senordevnyc 20 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The only time I can think of that democratic populations have made large and sweeping sacrifices have been when they’re actively engaged in total war. And even then, it usually has to be mandated and enforced pretty ruthlessly by the government.

We simply did not evolve as a species to make large personal individual sacrifices today in order to benefit billions of strangers decades in the future. Never going to happen.

The options here are technology saving us, or eco-totalitarian governments controlling a huge portion of the world’s population. Nothing else will work.

partiallypro 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This sacrifice involves putting millions back in poverty. I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

iamnothere 20 hours ago | parent [-]

Western activists are ok with this because (a) they don’t imagine that they will be greatly affected and will live a solarpunk luxury lifestyle and (b) they glorify third world poverty and consume media that presents it as a desirable, more authentic way of life, when the truth is that most of those people are desperately trying to claw their way into affluence.

None of the above implies that everyone can achieve a current day Western lifestyle or that current Western lifestyles are sustainable. But average people are going to continue seeking it out, it’s just human nature. Activists who expect people to “just” give up that search are not being realistic.