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bede 2 days ago

"As vehicles are reliable indicators of a person's social rank and wealth"

The wealthiest Europeans I know drive the cheapest vehicles. Modesty is wealth in many parts of the world, but perhaps not in California (the authors are affiliated with UC Berkeley).

morsch 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> The wealthiest Europeans I know drive the cheapest vehicles

That may well be true of the people you know, but in general the relationship is exactly what one would expect: the higher people's income, the more expensive their car purchases.

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/economic-bulletin/articles/2...

Full paper: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/economic-bulletin/articles/2...

cameldrv 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

However, there is another factor at play, which is that people who are more image conscious drive nicer cars at the same level of income/wealth, and in my experience, people who are more image conscious also tend to act more like jerks.

1659447091 2 days ago | parent [-]

> in my experience, people who are more image conscious also tend to act more like jerks.

That has been my experience as well. Ive experienced people who are more image conscious to appear to be in an imaginary competition with others and they tend to act accordingly.

2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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bede 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Thanks for sharing data. I suspect this effect is heavily stratified across demographics.

After a point, how much someone chooses to spend on their car is about their values more than their wealth.

I once lived in a street with many parked cars worth almost as much the houses of their owners. They were clearly bought (well, financed) as status symbols. I now live in a more affluent, desirable area where the cars are much more modest despite higher wealth and social status of their owners (doctors, scientists etc).

badpun 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's income, not wealth though. Some wealthy people don't have very high incomes.

philipov 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

axus 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I would have guessed vehicle as predicting ethics more than bank balance. Dumb Toyota and minivan more trustworthy than a Porsche, Dodge Charger, or Cyber Truck.

camkego 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This really does seem to call into question the credibility of this study.

rootusrootus 2 days ago | parent [-]

Why would an rando anecdote (which another sibling comment has proven does not reflect the broader reality) call into question an actual study? The latter may be garbage, or not, but it starts with a much better claim to credibility.

itake 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

criminals can’t deposit their money into a bank, but they can buy a $200,000 Lambo.

gruez 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

>criminals can’t deposit their money into a bank

They can. It just gets reported to FinCEN, which might attract unwanted attention. The same applies to buying a $200k lambo with cash, which has to be reported to the IRS[1], on top of being registered with the state DMV.

[1] https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...

itake a day ago | parent | next [-]

Not that I know about these things...

Some people buy used hot rods on Facebook Marketplace for around $100k, then trade them in to a dealership. They claim they only paid $5k for the car and their labor increased the value to $100k, then use that trade-in value to get the car they actually want.

junofan 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

They just set up financing. You can definitely buy cars with drug money.

pixl97 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I worked with a client that sold stuff that was legal, but directed a lot of ad traffic to very questionable stuff and made a crazy amount of money from it.

Because of this there was always some risk of the government locking up bank accounts, so physical assets were purchased and spread around to avoid seizure of all finances which can prevent a person from fighting a legal battle.

anukin 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s also in California. People flaunt wealth outside of cali though.

moralestapia 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>The wealthiest Europeans I know drive the cheapest vehicles.

Yeah, that's a fun meme, I'm sure it still gets a lot of likes on Instagram.

The data shows otherwise, however.

chaostheory 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is also a common trope for the North American West Coast including California, but I haven’t looked for actual data to confirm it

sandworm101 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They dont drive flash vehicles but they still do not drive junk. Thier car might be 20+ years old, but it is still a great car. Someone driving a well-maintained 90s BMW gathers more respect than anyone driving the latest model.

Clarkson had a line about estate owners driving "ancestral transport", invariably a land rover as old as the trees it lives amongst.

Ultimate statement about european land owners driving ancient vehicles: https://youtu.be/R8-9oIq1hxw?si=Ogg7C5MjFRoDdC9R

santoshalper 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Poor people aren't buying Ferraris and Bentleys, and yet plenty of them sell, so I think you're taking anecdote as data.

asib 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

The opposite of modesty is not "buying a Ferrari". Anyone at any level of wealth can be immodest.

Not saying I agree with GP, but your point doesn't hold up.

baubino 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There’s still a strong cultural bias though that is likely location dependent. I have lived in very wealthy towns for which there was not a single Ferrari or Bentley around (or any other luxury car for that matter). That ownership of an expensive car requires some degree of wealth is absolutely clear, but the inverse doesn’t follow —- average cars don’t indicate average income. It could be that the study finds that certain ethical biases are related to people who buy expensive cars, which is not the same as saying that certain ethical biases are related to wealthy people. Millionaires who drive Toyotas could simply exhibit different ethical standards than millionaires who drive Ferraris.

a34729t 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A frank conversation with a luxury car dealer might surrise you. People are buying these things on credit mostly, and are definitely not rich.

jppope 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

5-10 year old used Bentleys are ~50-60K well within the realm of a normal middle class individual.

KellyCriterion 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Compared to pricing, maybe.

But driving a bently is "some work", so I would rather prefer the small e-vehicle :-))

sublinear 2 days ago | parent [-]

I think the point was many people are car enthusiasts and can technically afford the maintenance if they want it that bad.

In fact, it usually takes them down the path of flipping the cars and falling up instead of down.

KellyCriterion 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

My fault, with >some work< I meant only the driving experience / effort, not any of the "maintenance / support" related issues (-:

Short version: I would go rather in leight-weight E-vehicle than in a heavy bently, navigating like an aircraft carrier

convolvatron 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

two doors down from my shop is an antique bently restorer. he's sold a few, but he still has 5 frames that he's working on. after all the custom panel and interior work and chasing after the few remaining parts available in all kinds of odd international corners he's still quite underwater.

sublinear 2 days ago | parent [-]

Sucks to be that guy? I'm not sure what your point is. You haven't given enough information to assess much. It's also likely you don't know all the numbers or you'd be working there.

heavenlyblue 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Arent bentleys designed to be driven by a separate driver not by the owner? :)

ranger_danger 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> Poor people aren't buying Ferraris and Bentleys

No, but sometimes they can finance a very (comparatively) expensive car for way too many years at an insane percentage just to appear wealthier than they are. And that stomps on the study just as much as millionaires driving a Camry IMO.