Remix.run Logo
butterisgood 3 hours ago

People need to stop redefining and trying to capture the term AGI. None of this is AGI. Not even close. Can it do things an AGI could do? Yeah some of it, but the difference really matters. These things still regularly fail, and gaslight about answers to questions like "how many r's in strawberry" or "s's in espresso".

An AGI wouldn't struggle with that.

mattmcal 41 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

A lot of movies gave the impression that making phone calls and balancing checkbooks would be the easiest tasks for consumer AI to solve, while math and science might require exceedingly advanced AI. Turns out to be the opposite: computers are great at math and bad at conversation.

nearbuy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The last version to fail on those questions was GPT 4.5.

Meanwhile most humans fail to correctly answer how many f's are in the sentence, "Finished files are the result of years of scientific study combined with the experience of many years.".

the_gastropod 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Nooo. I just asked Claude (Sonnet 5 Medium) how many I's are in assassin, and it said 2. Granted, it got several words correct before this. But no, they still aren't great at this letter-counting thing.

nearbuy an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think we should count the lower tier models if we're discussing what the top ones are capable of. No one was suggesting that Sonnet is AGI.

SmashDan an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Anyone know why they aren't good at this?

steelframe an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Meanwhile Qwen3.8 27B got both the 'f's and the 'i's questions right.

jasondigitized 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that there are plenty of savants who can't tell you how many r's are in strawberry.

taneq 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

These are like saying someone isn’t human because they have a speech impediment or an auditory processing disorder.

AGI doesn’t mean infallible, it just means it can have a reasonable crack at things it hasn’t seen or done before.

slidehero 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> gaslight about answers to questions like "how many r's in strawberry" or "s's in espresso".

this has been debunked too many times to bother rebutting. they struggle with those things because of the way they are.

it's completely irrelevant.

phlakaton 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If it allows you to distinguish readily between human intelligence and computer intelligence, it seems quite relevant to the question of whether computers have achieved something akin to human intelligence.

It may not be useful for anything else, but at least it can say that.

slidehero 2 hours ago | parent [-]

which just brings us back to the whole birds vs planes thing.

turns out that flapping wings is not the right way to unlock human flight.

computers could count the Rs in strawberry since vacuum tubes. that measure is irrelevant.

mrandish a minute ago | parent [-]

> computers could count the Rs in strawberry since vacuum tubes.

I think perhaps you're missing the reason I disagree. When assessing AGI I'm not evaluating counting characters or even the execution of math operators at any scale or speed. As you observe, computer software from Regex to spreadsheets and Mathematica already handle that well. But AGI isn't about what computers can do, it's specifically about what LLMs can do. Especially relative to things which are have been, until now, uniquely human capabilities like understanding nuanced context coming up with novel solutions to new problems not based on prior knowledge.

Most definitions of AGI start from a baseline that already assumes easily passing a Turing test and doing anything via text response that a high school graduate could. I ding modern LLMs for failing to count but for failing to intuitively understand the nuanced context of the problem posed. I fully understand that the proximate reason LLMs fail letter counting is that they operate at the token level.

The only reason LLMs get strawberry and blueberry correct now is that they have those words on their pre-training 'cheet sheet'. However, the fundamental weakness in the way LLM intelligence works which leads to this failure mode still hasn't been addressed. Even when the frontier labs add "recognize any sub-token counting question and write a Python script" to the training 'cheat sheet' so LLMs always pass that test... to me they still have a weakness that they would fail without that cheat sheet and therefore cannot fully replicate human-like intelligence. And it's not just about letter-counting. That gap and others like it lead to many other kinds of non-human brittleness in LLM problem solving. Those are the classes of reasoning, intuition and insight that the ARC-AGI series has been trying to queue up as targets. Not to show how bad LLMs are but to help them be great in all these counter-intuitive edge cases