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redwall_hp 4 hours ago

Valve killed the previously thriving boxed game industry two decades ago and people can't get over how much they love everything about Valve. Sony follows 20 years later (in a world where internet is faster than installing from BluRay and games are outgrowing three layer discs) and people lose their mind.

There's more noise about this than Microsoft's mass layoffs at the game companies they bought up.

scheeseman486 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Physical PC games weren't great in the 2000s. Online activated serial keys, optical disc based DRM that caused problems during both the 9x>NT and XP>Vista transitions, the only thing that made PC gaming tolerable for me was gamecopyworld. Valve (eventually) offered something better than that.

PC games can still be physical. Burn some discs or copy the files onto a USB stick and put it in a box. I think it's crazy that boutique companies like Limited Run Games completely avoid the platform when it's the only one left that isn't actively hostile to the core principles of the company. Admittedly PC does have the image of being a digital distribution only platform these days, but it's illusory and breaking that illusion is a marketing problem.

People were pretty pissed about the xbox layoffs, it's just that things move fast and this was the next thing.

beart 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I disagree with the assertion that Valve is responsible for the death of physical game copies.

First off, console games have gradually moved away from offering physical copies for years. This had the (probably deliberate) effect of killing the used game market. Earlier attempts to kill that market were driven by the proliferation of digital content that could not be resold.

Second, physical copies on the PC have not been guaranteed for a very long time. I would suggest it was actually the wide-scale proliferation of indie games that did more to kill the physical copy market than any deliberate transition from AAA studios. There are thousands of indie games out there now. Without digital copies, it would be impossible for anyone to actually purchase any of them.

And the momentum to move away from physical copies for PC gaming has been there for a very long time. No one was going to Best Buy to pick up a physical copy of minesweeper. There have been other factors as well, such as the popularization of MMORPGS which provided years of content from a single physical copy.

Really though, the idea that without Valve, the PC gaming market would still be chugging along on physical game copies just isn't realistic. It goes completely against the momentum built over the last 25 years of PC gaming.

Grombobulous 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

- Sony has a track record of removing purchased media en masse, while Valve does not.

- While it could be argued that Valve runs an effective monopoly of the PC platform based on their marketshare, Valve operates on a platform with competitive options including DRM-free stores.

- Game consoles have always been more attached to physical media than PCs.

- Sony is the largest player in the market (disregarding mobile phone gaming) with more total marketshare than Valve and the PC platform. This makes them a much more visible target.

philipov 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Valve doesn't randomly remove stuff I've payed for from my library. Even when the ability to purchase something goes away, people who already bought it keep access to it.

redwall_hp 3 hours ago | parent [-]

They patched CS:GO away, a game I paid retail price for, with "Counter-Strike 2" and overnight dropped support for my platform (MacOS).

Sony has never stolen a game from me, unlike Valve. The closest incident was that movie thing, which was more a failure on their part to negotiate perpetual licensing with the rightsholder.

scheeseman486 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Valve pivoting away from MacOS is a consequence of choices Apple has made for their platform, many of which made it a more hostile place for Steam to exist. This is baked into the long standing Apple model of software distribution, where API and architectural changes inevitably obsolete software with Apple usually providing only a limited time window for cross compatibility.

You can still play your purchases on an operating system that isn't actively fighting against you running them.

Telaneo 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

CS:GO is still accessible via the beta feature. Not sure if you can still play it on MacOS. I agree that that's the wrong way to do it, but at least you still have access to it in theory.

wredcoll 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Valve was a plucky underdog against the established publishers and, while dominant today, still has reasonable competition, sony is a giant corp with a reputation and a monopoly on playstations.

alephnerd 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> sony is a giant corp with a reputation and a monopoly on playstations.

That's like saying Volkswagen has a monopoly on Volkswagen cars.

Sony clearly does not have a monopoly on the video game industry, and a plurality of video games are cross-platform across consoles, PCs (Windows/Linux), and even MacOS.

wredcoll 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It would be slightly more accurate to say "volkswagen has a monopoly on volkswagen cars... and all accessories and replacement parts"

But the analogy breakdown because a car is more or less a complete item you buy and use for a purpose (aside from consumables) whereas a playstation is completely useless without games to play on it.

So maybe volkswagen brand gas would be the best analogy here.

dcow 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Not really. I can plug a generic usb cable into my Playstation and it charges my aftermarket controller just fine. I can even use aftermarket screws or put the console in an aftermarket enclosure.

scheeseman486 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Where can I buy an aftermarket optical drive and motherboard?

dcow 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Probably the same place you can buy an aftermarket CAN board and controller for your Volkswagen.

Oh, looks like cars and consoles aren't that different after all.

scheeseman486 an hour ago | parent [-]

Except for the software ecosystem which is the main driver of revenue for consoles and exists largely to support the sale and distribution of products from third parties, all of which is centrally controlled by the platform holder.

Someone else in the thread made the comparison to fuel, I'll go with that. Last time I checked, there was no such thing as petroleum DRM.

scheeseman486 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Volkswagen cars aren't a platform that fosters a billion dollar marketplace of third party sellers that contribute the bulk of value delivered by the product.

nalekberov 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If I want to move from point A to point B, I can choose from BMW, Audi or any cheaper Chinese brand.

But I cannot play 'Astro Bot' on another platform.

dcow 2 hours ago | parent [-]

You can't get the Volkswagen engine sound or drive experience in a BMW, though.

nalekberov an hour ago | parent [-]

Remember? Moving from point A to point B.

vel0city 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Valve killed the previously thriving boxed game industry two decades ago

Boxed PC games were practically dead by the time Valve started selling 3rd party games on their marketplace. Most game stores around me had stopped selling them or massively shrunk the shelf space for them. Xbox, Gamecube, Playstation 3, they had whole walls of the store dedicated to their stuff. PC games had a couple of shelves in the middle of the store, if even that. Sales for PC games had massively fallen between 1999 and 2005 while the rest of the game industry exploded.

The industry had shrunk over a third in five years before Valve started selling online. You can't say it was "thriving".

ReptileMan 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The PC has thriving piracy scene. So for any game worth playing there were lawful backups available on specialized sites. In a way it is different.

CamperBob2 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sony has a very long corporate tradition of fucking over their customers. Valve does not.

People still give money to Sony for some reason, but as far as I'm concerned that's on them. Call it victim-blaming at this point, I guess.

FoundTheShill 3 hours ago | parent [-]

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