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supriyo-biswas 9 hours ago

The other day, I remember an article was posted to HN about something, but it came from a company that provides SEO services to companies by doing something like this:

1. For a given company, analyze their target audiences and the questions they are likely to ask LLMs about.

2. For each such question, ask it to each of the major LLMs, and compute the KL divergence between the pages they want to rank for the question vs. the LLM's response.

3. Rewrite the article to minimize said KL divergence.

In effect, they're performing an iterative optimization of some sort that moves the embedding space of their article closer to the question asked to the LLM, and any embedding model or generated responses are going to prefer said responses over others.

I believe we will keep seeing more of this stuff.

SoftTalker 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

And it's all because of ads. The incentives in an ad-funded internet are just always going to lead to this sort of thing. The most important thing is getting the user to load your page, not actually satisfying their query.

Let's hope the LLM model continues to be paying for credits, because any that move to ad revenue will become useless for real work.

rectang 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Let's hope the LLM model continues to be paying for credits

LLM vendors make this hard because you can't trust them with your session data. Yesterday you were opted out of training, then suddenly today you're opted in.

It's an extension of the idea that they don't need to care about anybody's copyright. They don't care about preserving the security or privacy of customer data, because there is negligible incentive to do so.

For now, there's no substitute but as LLMs get commoditized trusting LLM SAAS vendors becomes an unacceptable business risk.

moron4hire 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

But don't you want Technojesus to come save you from never having learned how to invert a binary tree?

locknitpicker 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> And it's all because of ads.

Not really. A while ago there was a news piece stating that Israel was behind a series of fake think-tanks with very accessible websites which were created with the express purpose of feeding AI agents with alternative facts aligned with their foreign policy.

If anyone has the link at hand, please post it.

tencentshill 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/aug/26/fake-thinktank...

locknitpicker 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Thank you.

Past HN discussions

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49337392 (884 comments)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49313477

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49447600

xenadu02 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Some of us have been predicting this for a while.

People with an axe to grind or states with an agenda are already devoting tremendous effort toward affecting LLM models and it is very difficult to determine real from astroturf for humans let alone an LLM trying to train.

Much like PageRank now that the cat's out of the bag all the current approaches may prove to be useless in the long run.

grumbelbart2 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sure maybe, but the online ad market is USD 400b give or take, which vastly outmatches any such budgets.

kspacewalk2 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If by "not really" you mean it's not all because of ads, some governments dabble in it too, you're right. But it's still overwhelmingly because of ads.

csallen an hour ago | parent [-]

It's just incentives in general. Humans are self-motivated creatures, and in the absence of meaningful consequences they'll often do what they're incentivized to do, even if it harms others.

The internet is uniquely devoid of consequences (esp. reputational consequences, social faux pas, etc.) and makes effort expenditure minimal. So you get lots of bad behavior.

I think "ads vs not ads" is maybe the wrong way to model it. Ultimately people are just doing what benefits themselves across every dimension possible.

trimethylpurine an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You wrote "not really" and then described a literal ad.

bjt 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are incentives other than marketing, but I doubt the SEO company referred to by the ancestor comment is planning to do lots of business in the political propaganda space.

SoftTalker 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That sounds very plausible too. Propaganda/spin has always been a component of mass media.

astura 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>If anyone has the link at hand, please post it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/aug/26/fake-thinktank...

monster_truck 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Same difference tbh

boilerupnc 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There is a term for the general practice of optimizing responses called GEO - Generative Engine Optimization [0]. A cousin of SEO and equally unsavory in how trust is being eroded through info shaping. Self-discovery by individuals is the victim.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generative_engine_optimization