| ▲ | cpursley 11 hours ago |
| I still don’t understand why with all their cash these companies dont redo their apps in Rust or native. They are all so heavy and dog slow. There are already some very fast cross platform (wasm too!) libraries that can do what poppler does as well as parse and produce various office file formats. Because 2gb is crazy town, these things could be around 100mb, just throw some tokens at the problem. |
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| ▲ | sudo_cowsay 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Not that easy. Also, they have "priorities." Although their priorities are different than the users'. |
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| ▲ | 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | cpursley 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Just throw some tokens at the problem. I’ve vibed up a Rust Crux hybrid app that runs well on macOS, iPad and wasm and does some pretty complex xml manipulation and other document work. Absolutely smokes electron and you get native UI. Ref: https://redbadger.github.io/crux/ | | |
| ▲ | doc_ick 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | On top of everyone else’s great points, if you make your own “fork” of something, then you have to consistently maintain it. Which can be done with tokens, but an extra cost with something that’s not as user tested. | | |
| ▲ | cpursley 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | I’m not talking about forking, but using standard libraries and native frameworks instead pretending electron is a desktop app. | | |
| ▲ | doc_ick 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Ah good point, I thought this was coming across from the "recreate" your own approach. I would fully agree with you on using native frameworks, though the eletron desktop is a great "entry" onto desktops ensuring companies only have to update 1 source, as opposed to natives everywhere. |
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| ▲ | verdverm 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | one does not just "throw tokens" at a problem, Ai is not that capable, and we are talking about MS Office file format, likely a NP hard problem | | |
| ▲ | vb-8448 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | But in case they succeed the return on image will be astonishing. | | |
| ▲ | doc_ick 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | Can you expand upon this? | | |
| ▲ | vb-8448 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | A full implementation/rewrite of something like word, which is pretty complex and the quantity of edge cases is insane, in a relatively short amount of time, months, is very hard. If they succeed with AI it will be huge: it's basically not possible to do it today with humans, no matter how many people you put on the job. | | |
| ▲ | doc_ick 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I would agree a full rewrite of word which is very complex and take quite a bit of time. It would be impressive of AI to make a 80% rewrite, though I fully doubt it would cover the 100% rewrite (disregarding long term support as well). Why do you think it’s impossible for humans to rewrite word, especially even humans made it in the first place? |
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| ▲ | sigbottle 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I mean, aside from all the NP Hard sub problems (I might not be reading your satire though), the real hard problem is that a "product" is not just software, but an ecosystem and a promise of maintenance of the abstract user experience & quality of it. | |
| ▲ | cpursley 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | AI is especially good at ports like this where there’s a known and well tested surface area. | | |
| ▲ | johnsmith1840 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | *that only microsoft has access to. These guys puposely obscure controls and understanding of these products 100% to prevent you doing a port. Just go open a microsoft word doc in the browser and look at the dom. Despair! Horror! | | |
| ▲ | doc_ick 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Especially when there are three different versions, and each has a different team, and they all can work together at the same time. Crazy amount of tech supporting it that breaks a humans context let alone a models context. |
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| ▲ | verdverm 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "ports like this" skips the part about Microsoft/enterprise software having a known and well tested surface area, the few examples we've seen are exceptional cases I suspect |
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| ▲ | johnsmith1840 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You should go actually try to make any basic automation work around these systems. They purposely obscured, google doc is another example they completly hide the dom! I spent months fighting word processing systems and ended up shipping libre. There's almost zero alternatives without that becoming your entire company. |
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| ▲ | nomel 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What % of time, for a an average session, do you think is app overhead vs waiting for tokens? And there's your answer for why it's not a priority. |
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| ▲ | andai 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Jon Blow's response to this take was, "yes, which is why you have to work even harder to hide latency", instead of adding more on top. | |
| ▲ | nikanj 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | From OpenAIs perspective, resources on your computer are free and wasting them is inconsequential | | |
| ▲ | tmp10423288442 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | Kind of. Eventually it gets too slow even for the OpenAI engineers using it, and then they need to fix it. |
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| ▲ | kingstnap 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | quotemstr 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| What makes you think Rust is automatically better? (Also, "Rust or native" is a strange dichotomy. What's not native about Rust?) |
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| ▲ | kennywinker 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think “or native” is a gesture at swift/objc for mac and C# or whatever people write windows apps in. | |
| ▲ | cpursley 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Rust or native is objectively more performant and have smaller binaries than these web apps in Halloween costumes… |
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