Indeed. Israel also does something like this. Nerds don't go to the front line for example, they go into the cyber corps. It's why they have some of the best cyber professionals and companies in the world.

Americans should get free education and free healthcare. But as JFK said, one should also ask what they can do for their country. The military has a lot of jobs, relatively few members actually serve in combat. There are more than enough tasks to go around. Most every type of work you identify already exists as a subset of military service.

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jijijijij 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

I meant especially civilian services as alternative. Every human should have the right to decide, if they want the moral implications associated with the military. The military also shouldn't become a substitute civil infrastructure blurring lines of function and funding. E.g. money for education should be spend on public education for everyone, not becoming a incentive for joining the military.

In Germany it's been like that: You objected military service, you had to do mandatory civilian service, e.g. aiding disabled people, for 9 months . I would prefer there to be a choice right from the beginning. So while mandatory to spend a certain amount of your life time for the collective, some agency remains.

Israel is bad example, because there objection is notoriously hard, yet more relevant than ever.

	▲	godwinson__4-8 14 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Fair points. Appreciate your perspective. I would just say while generally your last point is true, we also shouldn't underplay the vast extent of civic protest against the current administration in Israel prior to October 7th. It is easy to forget given how quickly October 7th changed Israeli priorities, but I would actually suggest prior to the current "state of emergency" like suspension of internal policy disputes, Israeli society was well demonstrating the democratic benefits of having a country where (mostly) everyone has to serve. You had senior military figures, active military service members, former generals, and civilians (most of which served or had family who served or were serving) all standing up to prevent what was essentially a far-right takeover of the judiciary. That is no small thing, and the political optics and ability of Israeli democracy to protect itself in this (and other instances) is I think grounded in large part by the fact that the majority of that society sees defense as a collective responsibility of all, rather than the sequestered task of a few. This allows for more checks on state power. Obviously, Israel is not a great example for other reasons. But it is hard to imagine such an act ever occurring in the modern United States under present conditions. Take the Jan 6th attack. Why is it the job of the Capitol Police alone to prevent such an attempted decapitation of American democracy? Every American should feel a sense of patriotic duty and capability to protect the foundational organs of the American state. It doesn't exist in this country because for the vast majority of Americans, the federal government is really something of an alien entity. It's a piece of paper or a tax or a headline. The problem of modern America is we are supposed to be a democracy yet we are alienated from our own institutions, our own government, and our own military. In Israel, despite its numerous other problems, this problem does not exist. Athenian democracy - that which the West and the American founders lauded - had the same sort of emphasis on the inculcation of civic virtue through public service. Even the gadfly Socrates was a veteran.