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Dwarf Fortress' creator says the industry's in shambles over AI(pcgamer.com)
44 points by Limb 2 hours ago | 31 comments
munificent 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

1. Human attention is a finite resource.

2. Digital media allows a single authored work to consume the attention of an unbounded number of people with near zero marginal cost. Further, once a work has been authored, it is available to be consumed forever.

3. Computers, software, the web, and now AI have drastically lowered the cost to produce a work of digital media.

You can't have fixed demand and have the supply increase 10x every year without something going off the rails eventually.

Now, granted, a unit of digital media is not a commodity good. People have preferences and not all works are created equal. But people are also demonstrably not that discriminating at what they spend their attention on now matter how unsatisfying the experience was, once it's spent it's gone.

Our economic systems around making and consuming media were not set up to handle this level of imbalance between creator and audience and something will have to change if we want to still have a functioning world where people make good art and others are enriched by it.

lackoftactics 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

This seems to extend even beyond the arts. I would say that the race to add more features to web and mobile apps will face a similar obstacle.

How long can we continue making 10x more features just because we can, until somebody realizes that users do not have the attention to spend on them? There might be a shift, but currently, we are too focused on pleasing shareholders.

newtonianrules 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Does it seem like companies just aren’t that well run anymore? I mean, companies seem to be having massive layoffs and placing ever more work on the remaining employees. At what point will the remaining employees just collapse?

Are we just reverting to the mean after years of zero interest rate policy? Would love for folks with experience working in tech in the 90s and 00s especially to chime in.

louthy 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> Does it seem like companies just aren’t that well run anymore?

If you mean the games industry, it was always poorly run. I worked in games in the 90s and it was a cottage industry of nerds, many of whom had success with an 8bit game in the 80s (where they did everything: a one person team), to then have to run large teams of devs/artists/designers/etc without any leadership experience and more complex hardware.

Happy days :D

altairprime 6 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[delayed]

pavel_lishin 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Were they ever well run?

martythemaniak 11 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'll give you my diagnosis, which is derived from this: https://www.semafor.com/article/04/27/2025/the-group-chats-t...

The thing to realize about the SV executive class is that they have constructed a closed ecosystem around them where they only talk amongst themselves and a small number of supporting actors who say what the execs need to hear. A CEO will talk to other CEOs he will not talk to his skip reports. Alternative viewpoints or dissent are not part of this social circle, and despite their 'conterarian' self-image, there's an immense amount of social pressure to conform.

You can can see hints of this outside - for example this site used to see YC folks as regular commenters, but no more. Twitter was changed so that only views favoured by Musk show up prominently in replies. These people certainly do not encounter normal people in their day-to-day lives.

In this information environment you see extremely rapid horizontal spread of weird, stupid and esoteric ideas - one CEO does a layoff, all of them will do layoffs. One turns MAGA, they all turn MAGA, etc. One guy starts yapping about some snake oil, they all yap about snake oil. There no negative feedback loop there.

mschuster91 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

> In this information environment you see extremely rapid horizontal spread of weird, stupid and esoteric ideas - one CEO does a layoff, all of them will do layoffs. One turns MAGA, they all turn MAGA

As for the layoffs, that one was to be expected, a correction after the insane hiring sprees during the ZIRP phase.

As for MAGA... well, Trump made it clear. Either you walk the line with him, or you get screwed.

dfxm12 25 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't go back quite to the 90s, but this has been true across my entire experience working in a few big multinationals (including one in tech).

Companies will do what Wall Street wants (Wall Street likes layoffs), and at a certain level, they don't want unemployment to get too low, lest their workers gain too much leverage.

profstasiak 30 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We need Dwarf Fortress creator to lead Butlerian Jihad

hax0ron3 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>They're trying to have a CEO press a button that makes a game, and then everyone else somehow buys it without a job.

If AIs get just a few times better than they are now, the CEO probably actually will be able to press a button that makes a good quality game. The problem for the CEO is that every other CEO will be able to do the same thing, so what will be the distinguishing factor?

The buying without a job part isn't necessarily a devastating problem for now. Blue collar workers and service industry workers aren't in immediate danger of being replaced by AI, so there is a cushion period in which there is still a large number of people who have jobs.

>Since the advent of modern capitalism (and likely a long while before that), those in charge have often misunderstood, underestimated, or dismissed the hard work that goes into labour they don't understand.

I'm no big capitalism fan, but this sentence is funny. The author just had to put in a dig against capitalism, mildly qualified with the "and likely a long while before that". What do you mean "likely"? Lol. It's absolutely obvious that this has been true for a long while before modern capitalism.

voidfunc 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

A sizable portion of the blue collar economy collapses too if the white collar portion stops having money to spend or suddenly has an influx of time to do some of the stuff the blue collar workers were doing for them like lawns, home repair, painting etc.

Its all tied together. The current system cannot function if unemployment goes double digits.

dibujaron 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"Blue collar workers and service industry workers aren't in immediate danger of being replaced by AI"

I wouldn't be so sure about this; robotics is advancing rapidly. I do think there'll be a substantial market for "human-made" products and services as luxuries, though, so at least some humans will retain these jobs.

bena 7 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

The issue isn’t every other CEO having access to the “make game” button, but who will buy that game when the customers have access to their own “make game” button?

hax0ron3 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

Good point!

tiahura 38 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The argument that it is in shambles wasn’t particularly persuasive. “videogames are as profitable as ever”

It seemed more like the understandable frustration of someone whose profession is being automated. Schumpeter creative destruction, but not shambles.

moshun 30 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Part of the problem is that some investor somewhere making profits is considered the only real marker for success. It’s an insane perspective that devalues all other (arguably more important) aspects of a work’s success.

ctoth 19 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

It sounds like you're complaining about capitalism, not AI?

sm-silversight 15 minutes ago | parent [-]

Shareholder capitalism as milton friedman argued for it. Ford had a different vision but the Dodge brothers stamped it out.

titzer 18 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Welcome to growthism.

dexwiz 31 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Profit in video games as an industry is largely the gambling industry hiding under the another umbrella. I'm not even talking about loot boxes. Just old school gambling games like roulette and slot machines but in a digital format. Once you strip that away and loot boxes, the numbers are great for classic games.

bhewes 15 minutes ago | parent [-]

Worse then gambling at least I can take cash out. These are pure extraction machines. When I was part of a game studio startup all the VCs wanted the loot gambling games, some of the teams they funded hired casino guys.

spwa4 a few seconds ago | parent [-]

Yes, then this part was regulated. And so if you allow cash out, you're regulated.

The result was not regulated gambling but extermination of cash out options (well, and sometimes very obvious illegal gambling houses).

makerofthings 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Which is exactly the problem. All the folks in charge care about is money. Money has absolutely nothing to do with whether a game is fun to play or not.

An eternal curse on the houses of anyone involved with these AIs.

andrewmutz 21 minutes ago | parent [-]

Don’t you make more money if the game is fun to play? (People buy the game)

makerofthings 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

A huge marketing budget can push a mediocre game far further than a really good indie game that doesn't get lucky with youtube.

jasonlotito 8 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

No.

100% not. To equate fun to play to people buying the game is 100% not how you should say making more money is more people buying the game. Money is money. If the game is mediocre but it is fun enough, it can get more money than a game that is more fun but doesn't have as many opportunities to spend.

This is why things like dark patterns exist that try to get you to spend money through FOMO and other mechanisms like loot boxes.

You can argue that all of these things are people having "fun," but I wouldn't define that as fun to play.

Finally, none of these necessitate people buying the game, but rather spending money in the game. Usually, it's free games where people buy a secondary currency to spend on virtual items. Mobile apps, for example, are huge with this.

So the real answer to your question on multiple grounds is no.

Edit: Now, I will give you that people do have to make a choice, but that's like saying that gambling addiction is not real and it's a choice, or drug addiction is real and it's a choice. The reason for alcoholism and Alcoholics Anonymous is bogus because it's just a choice, but it would be dangerous to classify it as just a choice.

qw_qrtx 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"the industry" also includes "human resources", previously known as personnel or humans.

Any why always call critics "frustrated" in order to depict them as weak and spiteful? Isn't the Dwarf Fortress guy independent anyway?

mcphage 33 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Video games are profitable as ever, but they take years to produce, and the mass layoffs makes me wonder who’s going to be making the games coming out in 2-5 years. Also it has required a lot of write-offs from closing studios to maintain this profitability, and that’s not a trick you can keep up for long.

qw_qrtx 39 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I have never been a gamer, but I have gained huge respect for gamers, gamer magazines and game developers for pushing back against this AI curse.

Contrast this with "open" source where some Gen-Xers who are too tired to program need the AI wheelchair and simultaneously build power in their corporations for selling out everyone else.

I fell that also gamers are still able to articulate themselves rather than just spewing corporate talking points all day long.

ctoth 16 minutes ago | parent [-]

You may wish to check if the screen name JackWeinberg is available.