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satvikpendem an hour ago

Claude slop article aside, this act is one reason why some people say Europe is an open air museum, as it'd rather regulate itself to obscurity while its great works are behind it. Where is Mistral, Le Chaton Fat? They're not competitive anymore. Meanwhile China reaches ever forward because they know that speed and endurance is everything in a race, not shooting oneself in the foot.

stymaar an hour ago | parent | next [-]

The key problem for Europe is that they don't want to take strong enough actions against US tech to let their own actors develop. Which is how China has reached tech dominance, and how even a shithole country like Russia can have their own “tech” industry.

solenoid0937 41 minutes ago | parent [-]

Even in a hypothetical world where they somehow killed off US tech completely, they still wouldn't have their own actors develop. There is no collective will, no risk taking mindset. The VCs are cowardly with capital, and people don't follow through on bright ideas. Taxes and regulations suffocate any progress and no one wants to do anything about it.

The EU would rather cruise off into perceived comfort and safety rather than attempt to stay relevant economically and on the world stage. Only when the region is unable to afford its own welfare will it start wondering where things went wrong.

cbg0 26 minutes ago | parent [-]

> Taxes and regulations suffocate any progress and no one wants to do anything about it.

We could rephrase this as "the shareholders aren't maximizing their value and the average Joe doesn't have a problem with it".

solenoid0937 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

You can use as many trendy "capitalism bad" phrases as you want, it doesn't change the reality that the EU has stagnated and fallen behind both economically and on the world stage, and will likely never catch up at this rate. The average Joe's welfare pool will stagnate with it, by the way.

A mindset shift away from the very mindset you espouse is what is necessary for the EU to succeed.

frabcus 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The idea was that technology is now powerful enough, everything need not be just competition any more. The world could also work to let every human have a good life. Neither China nor America truly seem to have that goal, despite it being both possible and ethical. Europe at least did, based on our experiences of the horrors of the early/mid C20.

It's true that in the last 10 years that vision feels like it has crumbled. And the inevitableness of competition is coming back. International law and human rights are dissolving - rule based on power. This works well for anyone while it works for them - except for our souls, and longer term... It's hubristic and eventually empires fall. Europe has already experienced this, and remembers it.

Whether these empires will fall to global economic collapse from lack of co-operation, or environmental destruction from lack of charging for externalities, or from global war, or simply from out of control AI, remains to be seen.

But never question, it is possible to avoid all those. But we have to try to, not just cheaply go "competition good", because of the short term thrill of the win. Competition is good, and so is cooperation.

aenis 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

China and America's goals will not be influenced one bit by the EU bureaucracy. The only effect it will have it will make EU fall behind even further.

We'd need quite some changes in the EU to focus on actually winning at something again. Winning at the expense of some of the lofty ideals. I'd rather EU have a decent frontier model lab that plays to win, and steps on toes while doing so, than have a very elaborate bureaucracy that tries to prevent that from happening. Its no surprise the bureaucrats have the exactly opposite goals, and its sad that most of the population won't see the consequences of this conflict of interest until it's too late to do anything -- because the Americans and the Chinese have near AGI capabilities, plentiful energy sources, and, really, not a lot of reasons to remember where Europe is on the map.

solenoid0937 29 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

This is a very naive viewpoint that does not understand that superintelligence is a race between the West and China.

While the EU is twiddling its thumbs about copyright, it is shooting its own side in the foot during the most important race in human history.

The pure absurdity of this is a reflection of how the EU routinely chooses short term safety and good vibes over long term prosperity and success. This mindset is why the EU has been utterly unable to compete for years -- and now, they want to impose their failed model on the actually successful Western companies.

frabcus 19 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, that's fair, and particularly so for AI. The best action would be to speak softly and carry a big stick.

But ultimately, to avoid the dangers of AI, a control treaty of which the only similar historical example was nuclear weapons, will be needed between the US and China. And perhaps, Europe would be better at negotiating that if it was all three.

Meanwhile, legislating to label deepfakes, and evaluating models for safety, should hardly be controversial. And in an ideal world, the US and China would agree and be collaborating with Europe on doing that, not whining about it. That includes reform of copyright.

solenoid0937 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

It is totally unrealistic to think that any country could regulate the other country's race to superintelligence.

This is a technology that will give the victor control over the future of humanity forever, and the ability to lock out any competitors from reaching the same level of capability.

Do you really think China would sign any agreement here in good faith? It would be hopelessly naive to negotiate a slowdown and assume that China is not lying through their teeth and accelerating internally. The stakes are too high - we would do the same.

The only option is to win the race, because no entity is naively trusting enough to risk losing this race.

cbg0 17 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> the most important race in human history

This feels like it needs a lot of asterisks. A race implies someone will win it - how exactly is China winning by making those models freely available? "The West" can use that tech, it's not locked away in some vault.

solenoid0937 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

This is a very easy question to answer: they're commoditizing AI and compressing margins for the US labs, while their state funds large scale buildouts. It's a decelerating force for the US because it removes dollars that the labs would otherwise put into R&D.

Obviously China will not release models if they ever get far ahead of the US's best models in capability. You can't seriously think that "free models" will remain the game plan if they take an indisputable lead?

seibelj an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

You’ll get downvoted to oblivion but it’s true in endless ways even before AI. The EUs obsession with green energy and destroying nuclear in Germany, the wealth taxes, the bureaucracy, how it’s 10x easier to get disability than it is to start a corporation. Death by a thousand cuts. I don’t see this improving until real, visible pain is felt. They are so poor economically but the consequences are not being felt yet

razemio an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Just my 2 cents. Nuclear was dead in Germany without political influence. The reactors where so old, that upgrading them to modern standard would have been a waste of money compared to renewables. France only works because the state helps out. UKs new reactors are financial suicide.

Everything else you might have a point. The EU behaves as if it has influence over companies abroad. Then its strategy might work and do some good. Sadly this is not the case. Instead we are getting isolated and loosing the AI battle bad while bureaucracy and regulations forces inventors to leave.

UpsideDownRide 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nuclear in Germany was destroyed mostly due to unchecked Russian influence. Shroeder got rewarded by putting the final nail by getting all those board positions in Russia. And they had a reason to be blind to it since the industry does want Russian hydrocarbons.

And as sad of a story as it is, it's nothing compared to what Orange did. It will be a good showcase for the future how business is not the economy.

satvikpendem an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And it's not even just me who says this, this is an exact title I've seen online as well before, below.

The reality is Europe will tend towards stagnation while other superpowers continue trudging on, some with their help of their governments while others, even despite themselves and their governments.

https://www.trouw.nl/opinie/wil-europa-geen-openluchtmuseum-...

https://www.theprincetontory.com/is-europe-an-open-air-museu...

https://www.investmentofficer.lu/en/columns/gregory-kennedy/...

thallium205 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

The proof is in the pudding. On a pure price-return basis without dividends, an investment in the Euro Stoxx 50 in 2000 sat at approximately 0% capital growth for nearly 25 years.

waitdontanswer an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Now who could be behind this po- wait, hold up, I didn't need you to answer. What the. Stop.

cbg0 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The anti-EU comments are always the same shape, unable to separate the EU from individual countries and misattributing country specific policies to the entire EU. Only a few countries in the EU have wealth taxes, and it's not the EU who imposed them. Disability pensions are not easy to get and require a lot of medical paperwork and approvals in most EU countries. And what does "so poor economically" even mean?

frabcus 28 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Right - the EU is not that powerful. If anything Europe's mistake has been not making it powerful enough, so there is possibility of competing with China and America.

Britain has left it and that's made a negative difference to our productivity. Large home markets are critical, when your two major competitors have large home markets.

Taxes and social services are cultural things in Europe, based on us understanding what a good way to use the wealth technology has given is. America understands this as well - it spends more on state healthcare than Europe does (yes, PPP adjusted), just not universally available.

cbg0 22 minutes ago | parent [-]

That "just not universally available" is kind of the crux of it; all that money in a first world country and many people still fear that calling an ambulance will bankrupt them.

seibelj 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

mhitza 22 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Ha! That's pure nonsense propaganda. Show me where it is 10x easier to take disability than establish a company. Then show me how EU destroyed Germany's nuclear energy, while doing well in other countries.

If you can't you are no better than the russian and right-wing americans that push anti-EU propaganda.

aenis 18 minutes ago | parent [-]

True, the Germans destroyed their own nuclear industry, and with it - its prosperity - entirely on their own. Specifically, Angela Merkel did that, along with lots of other horrible things that deprived the Germans of the future.