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amluto 3 hours ago

This seems weak.

In a language like Rust, the compiler will “lock” the pointers for you, and you can’t forget.

In a language like C++ (and presumably Zig), one could, in theory at least, have the iterators and slices that reference the storage of a dynamic array hold some sort of lock that pins the storage.

But this API requires the programmer to remember to lock the pointers and also requires the programmer to keep the lock alive for the correct region of code. And it looks to me like even the example in the blog post has the lock taken completely outside the function that requires stability, so there is nothing whatsoever that gets the lock scoping right. Even the type system can’t help — the offending parse function can’t declare that it wants a pointer-locked ArrayList parameter.

Someone an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I agree. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49501582 says:

“I use it in a lot of places where I know the max capacity ahead of time -- ensureCapacity() followed by a lot of AssumeCapacity()-styled commands. It's convenient for all of the ... convenience ... methods (append() requires some bookkeeping somewhere, appendSlice() requires more, and so on). In those usages, it's basically syntactic sugar over a slice”*

I suspect “where I know the max capacity ahead of time” covers most if not all use cases (if it you use this without knowing max capacity, you either accept your code may panic, or you do some unlock, grow, lock again dance when you discover your initial estimate is wrong)

If so, wouldn’t adding a growable container where you specify capacity at construction time and removing access to the internal pointers of ArrayList be a better way to handle this?

frmdstryr an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Do any languages have a notion of "relative pointers"? So in the example if instead of appending "line" as ptr & len, it'd instead be appending an offset & len which could in theory be used to safely compute the actual location even with relocations.

Someone 43 minutes ago | parent [-]

If you squeeze your eyes a bit, C compilers for Windows used to have them, with far pointers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_pointer)

Similarly, CPU architectures that use descriptors can (have to?) have languages with that notion.

pron an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I reach for a low-level language only when I want low-level control over what operations happen and when, what memory is used and when etc.. At present, no language offers me this control and safety at the same time. With Rust, when I need such control (which is always, otherwise I would use a higher-level language), I need to give up safety, anyway, at which point I have no safety and the complexity of a language that offers safety.

So right now, when we want control, we need to give up some safety, but weaker things are still helpful.

Also, in low-level code, the problem of "I might forget to do something" sometimes clashes with the problem of "I need to see exactly what operations are done and where". Various kinds of implicitness help with the former at the expense of the latter.

I'm not saying this is universally better than other approaches, but many people who do serious low-level programming would prefer this.

pjmlp an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Except the point that Zig should do better than Object Pascal, Modula-2, with solutions already available on Insure++ and friends for use after free, 30 years ago.

duped an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

What are some examples of things you "always" need that require unsafe Rust?