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MomsAVoxell 6 hours ago

Just took a train ride from Vienna to Budapest for a few days, and couldn’t help but notice how very, very dry everything is .. as an Australian living in Europe for a few decades now, I’ve always been intrigued by just how green everything is, literally something growing in every single crack in the pavement, or endless rolling green fields of prosperity during spring - whereas, where I’m from its year-long spinifex and grass shrubs and wattles with the occasional bush flower bloom, barely hanging on out in the desert, mostly reds and blacks and greys, not much green - so the vibrancy of European fields and the abundant diversity of countryside flora have always been pleasant to my eyes ..

During this trip, I was kind of shocked that things felt a bit more Australian to my eyes .. the grasses are dry and barren, the beautiful city parks of both Budapest and Vienna dustier than usual, the Danube water level definitely noticeably lower than I remember ever seeing.

I’ve long been encouraging my European friends to not take the abundance of growth for granted, and now we see it in the environment, plain and clear: the worlds’ weather is changing.

A week of sweltering heat is predicted for us again in Vienna, and as we get started on September and then October so close, two thoughts are on my mind: use this opportunity to go for more dips in the Danube, and .. I wonder what the floods of late-autumn will bring, because .. inevitably .. this super dry summer means there will be heavier rains in October. Might be we look back in a month or two and wish we had this dry heat back again, who knows ..

Either way, neither city is particularly comfortable in the heat. A hundred or so years ago, the heat retention was a feature. Now it’s a bug.

lukaslalinsky 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I had a similar observation this year. In 2015, I was in California, was doing some hiking on the weekends, and I found it very unnatural how all the grasses were dry, trails dusty, on the hills/mountains. I came back to Slovakia, and I was happy to see the green grass. Fast-forward to 2026, and our grasses are equally dry and trails are equally dusty. Water management seems to be more important than ever, because this is only going to get worse. Maybe we need to build massive reservoirs, to retain the flood water somehow, if we want to keep living here in the next 100 years.

VBprogrammer 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm not sure if Clarkson's farm has much of a following outside of the UK. Last year they had several crops fail due to the drought over summer and honestly this year was far worse. I believe he may not have even bothered planting the normal cash crops, so it will be interesting to see how that works out. That said, the year before I think it was so wet early in the year that farmers really struggled to get crops in the ground.

In areas like Valencia there are ancient irrigation systems and water rights controlled by water councils older than many countries. I wonder if the UK will need to do similar, irrigation ponds, flood control structures and canals to control the flow of water through the landscape.

pwagland 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It definitely has a following.

This is the challenge of extreme weather, it's either drought or floods, and wild swings from the one to the other. As a kid growing up in Australia, we heard many such stories, especially if the rains came on too suddenly, since then the ground can't absorb the water, and you get flash floods.

As if being a farmer isn't already tough enough.

phatfish 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It has more of a following outside the UK. We know what he is like.

kakacik 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

My friend that show is legendary. Not on the same watchers level as original Top Gear (who can surpass 300 million), but its extremely good and literally eye-opening to millions about woes and challenges of modern agriculture.

I must admit I was utterly clueless before watching that show, what an eye opener. I hope Jeremy will be OK regarding his health, he is a national treasure.

He used to mock global warming and its advocates but thats visibly thing of the past once he got off his high ego horse behind the wheel and proverbially smelled the grass/coffee out in the countryside.

alistairSH an hour ago | parent [-]

He might be a treasure, but's he's also a prick. He has a long history of letting his on-screen persona leak into meatspace (or maybe it's the other way around) and that's not a good thing.

Edit - since people seem to not believe me, at minimum, he punched his producer [1]. Which wasn't the first time he turned violent - he punched Piers Morgan [2] for letting Clarkson's extramarital affairs go public. Oh, he also had poorly concealed extra-marital affairs.

1 - https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-35648682 2 - https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/piers-morgan-rev...

cromka a minute ago | parent [-]

I don't like you're being down voted, let's not give celebrities extra passes to be the assholes they can be. Elon being another prime example.

bobthepanda 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Underground cisterns are generally the way to do it and even the Romans were building them

Melatonic 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

California was also in a super drought at that time

ffsm8 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Meh, almost nobody will want to live in most of Europe post AMOC collapse in 20-40 yrs

silon42 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It might compensate for global warming... I think a lot will depend on whether there is rain or not.

HPsquared an hour ago | parent [-]

Warm oceans, as they are, would surely bring rain? Hence why the UK is so rainy. The ocean is warmer than the land, it's like warm water in a cold room, you get the moisture coming off it. If the ocean isn't warm any more, I reckon (as an amateur engineer not climatologist) that would reduce the rain we get.

epolanski 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What's that?

0bytes 3 hours ago | parent [-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_meridional_overturnin...

See “stability” section

jamonserrano 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As far as I remember, here in Budapest - apart from a handful of quick showers - it rained exactly once all summer, and altogether about four times since the end of winter. The city is estimated to lose a third of its trees in the next 10-15 years.

The summer heat, the drought, combined with winter cold spells and now usual late spring frosts have all but destroyed the country's agriculture too. The new government has initiated a water retention plan, but it might be too little to late.

tyrabound 4 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

rcbdev an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For what it's worth, please do not go for a dip in the Danube river proper here in Vienna, the currents are too dangerous for bathing and there is no official bathing spot anywhere for this reason. Instead, visit our other waters such as the lakes of the Old Danube or the high-water protection side-arm New Danube.

MomsAVoxell an hour ago | parent [-]

Yes, good clarification, I personally spend my times at Grillplatz 11 on the Neue Donau side of Donau Insel (Danube Island) .. it has been a wonderful summer and the water is delightful. Very safe and rewarding swim, every time.

barbazoo 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> because .. inevitably .. this super dry summer means there will be heavier rains in October

What's the process here for that region? I don't think the moisture is waiting anywhere.

MomsAVoxell 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I’ve had it explained to me that it evaporates in the heat and gets deposited in the mountains and the atmosphere above the more northern states, where .. once things cool down, it condenses and moves through tributaries in a big rush or two during the massive temperature changes of October/November.

The thunder storms we’ve had in Vienna in the last few years have produced amazing floods - reminiscent of the desert storms of Australias north-west, where I am from - and a couple years back, the engineering of Viennas water ways was put to the test, with the floods overflowing railway lines and traffic arteries of the city in ways not seen much before this decade...

bestouff an hour ago | parent [-]

I dunno about that. I'm living in the mountains (French Alps) and it's unusually dry here. Trees are dying.

herbst 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

Same here in the Swiss Alps. Doesn't look so bad, but rain is WAY below what it should be. Still is

Ekaros 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Finland has escaped most of the heat of Central Europe. We have had hard rains occasionally, but overall not that much more rain. From stats look like 100-150% of historic numbers.

So it has really not rained outside the high pressure zone. So I am not really sure where it all would be.

Thlom 5 hours ago | parent [-]

West coast of Norway. 12-15 degrees and rain most of the summer.

jjtheblunt 5 hours ago | parent [-]

that sounds wonderful from the ~1000 square miles of Phoenix, Arizona, where a century of concrete and asphalt retain so much heat that the clouds bounce around the borders of the heat bubble overhead, unable to dump rain regularly enough to evaporate away the stored heat, but with rainfall regularly visible outside the edges of the metropolitan area, in the wide open skies.

downut 2 hours ago | parent [-]

My wife and I retired to Tucson last year, and intentionally went through this first summer just to get the full experience. Never again! We've been under flash flood warnings the last several days and have only had a few sprinkles to go with the 108F days.

So... I had a look at Eureka CA weather this morning. Looks like Western Norway. Nice. Spending July and August up there might be mandatory for our mental health.

We spent 3 years in Tempe back in the '80s. It sucked then too.

tyrabound 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s not really a common perspective, but I have a theory that the primary cause of especially this kind of drought has way more to do with Europe essentially draining itself through all of the river straightening projects of the 19th century. How could it not be.

Before all the industrial age river straightening that has gone on until even rather recently with damming and concrete encasement projects in I think even the 1990s, you not only prevented the river water, i.e., mountain glacial waters and evaporative rain waters from meandering and saturating the lowlands, but you even speed up the pace not to mention shortening the distance.

Sure, it wasn’t a fast process, but as anyone who has had a small water leak in their home can tell you, constant flow of water at even a small rate adds up over 24/7/365 and 200 years. You’ve literally not just been draining all your fresh water into the ocean, but you’ve been draining your water battery in the form of the saturated wetlands, soil and structures like the gravel aquifers of Central Europe of water. More people are befuddled why there is a drought after they drained the water cycle battery for 200 years, not to mention that the European population has almost quadrupled over that time and people used far less water in the past, not even to mention that the EU is doing to drive tens of millions of more people into Europe.

Ironically and in seemingly typical contradictory and counterproductive manner, the EU seems to quietly and maybe even ignorantly agree with me based on several directives and regulations they’ve been passing to restore some wetlands, river flows, and floodplains. Unfortunately it’s very little and very late (as people may be noticing) the rule of thumb is that what was destroyed takes at least 6x the effort to restore.

porkpieshoe an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Interesting theory and I can see how you get there.

But if drainage changes were the primary cause, we would've seen drought severity increasing across the time period where straightening/etc were happening... instead the drought severity increases begin _after_ that period, better aligned with temperature changes.

Additionally, your analogy to a water leak from a tank doesn't hold, because the water recharges over time...

Further, your complaints about immigrants also doesn't make sense, as water usage has been going down (and residential utilization is quite low, altogether).

As such, my theory is that you're just a right-wing crank who wants to find a reason to deny global warming, and to hate immigrants.

tpm 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> How could it not be.

Plenty of ways. That's what we have science for. For one, why choose 19th century projects when we did millenia of terraforming, mostly by doing away with forrests and wetlands, but also planting artifical forrests over dry sand areas (see the Cap Ferret fire) etc. etc.

but also, the heatwaves of this summer mostly consist of hot air from Sahara being driven to Europe and staying there.

> that the EU is doing to drive tens of millions of more people into Europe

what

maciejw an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't think this view is especially controversial. Many past infrastructure and industry projects make the drought worse today - dams, channels, mines (especially open-pit). In my area (eastern Poland) single communist-era irigation project is responsible for destroying 73% of peat bogs, meadow marshes and wet meadows [1]. Restoring them to previous condition is completely infeasible.

[1] https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kana%C5%82_Wieprz-Krzna

rickydroll an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's a really good point. I've seen some work on retaining moisture in the desert, and if memory serves, the successful ones create small check dams to retard water flow down a watercourse, giving it time to soak into the ground and replenish groundwater.

It would be interesting to see whether one could apply that to European waterways as part of marshland regeneration.

ignoramous 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> not even to mention that the EU is doing to drive tens of millions of more people into Europe

Interesting how lived perception of resource scarcity and socio-economic change will attribute it all to ... others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_theories

pfdietz 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

El Nino involves moving moisture around, not just reducing precipitation all over. So the opposite can also be seen in some places. The eastern US and parts of the midwest have had a very good year, an the US harvest of maize is projected to be the 2nd highest ever, slightly above 16 billion bushels.

Locally (New York state), things have been so wet we're seeing premature leaf drops from maple trees due to leaf fungus (tar spot disease).

irishcoffee 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Nah, the water cycle is a myth. Don’t you see all these other replies? Clearly science is only supposed to be cherry-picked to fit a narrative.

johnofthesea 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Can you be more specific?

touwer 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's so dry, even in tne Netherlands and north of France. Amazing how quickly it goes

MomsAVoxell 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I can’t imagine what the Netherlands would look like if desertification would occur. It seems implausible that those flat, flat lands would ever turn brown and grey and dusty - but I won’t be surprised if things turn that way in a few years. I hope the Dutch have a solution, they always seem to when it comes to water control ..

microtonal 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I think currently one of the biggest risks for The Netherlands is salinization. If there is not enough river water and the groundwater level is too low, sea water will push upward, contaminating the river beds and increasingly much soil around it. This summer they had to close locks to block seawater and to increase the fresh water level. Of course, this has a considerable economic damage, since it blocks inland shipping.

artisinal 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Drought in The Netherlands is artificial though. Millionaire farmers are pumping up water to water their crops during the day. Due to the heat most of the spray evaporates before it touches the plants. During the winter they artificially lower the ground water level for personal benefit.

Also of this so they can gain even more millions by exporting all the food across the border. Time to block some more highways, destroy some more property and kill some more people in order to secure those sweet EU subsidies.

ricardobayes 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Balaton's current level is something like... 40-50cm so yeah you're right. This is unprecedented

MomsAVoxell 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Wow, that's kind of incredible. I've always been able to walk out into parts of it for quite a distance in prior visits over the years but I'm guessing this new average is an extreme.

locallost 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

To be honest, it's not unusual for that part of the Europe to be pretty yellow in August. I was taking train rides to Budapest regularly between 2010-2020. But it's getting worse for sure.

epolanski 3 hours ago | parent [-]

As an European, no, current situation is unprecedented.

It was getting bad already, but like this? Absurd.

locallost 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I agree with that, but was specifically referring to the description of everything being very dry in that area. I noticed this already 15 years ago, the area around Budapest was much more yellow and dry compared to countries up north.

But yes, the intensity and especially the duration of the heat has intensified. I stopped visiting my family in the south of Europe around five years ago, and visit in either fall or spring. Can't really take the heat, it's not worth it.

MomsAVoxell 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I have been living in the area for 26 years or so, and while its not unusual to have dryness in summer, it is visibly more intense lately ..

The cities will have to refactor themselves to avoid becoming ovens.

throw-the-towel 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think Hungary is supposed to be dry though? Not this dry, sure, but still.

fodkodrasz 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Hungary was largely swamps and marshlands in the past, much of which was drained to give way for large-field monocultural agriculture, this started in the 19th century, and was further developed, until we got here. Now the "non-existent climate change" is added to that, and I wonder if our forests will survive me...

Also soil erosion is a problem, so I think I'll live to get it all to a desert.

MomsAVoxell 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sure, it gets dry in summer, it’s not always so lush - at least in my experience over the years.

But, parks of dead grass, and dust devils blowing in the corners? Can’t say I’ve seen that much over the decades of visiting the region. In fact I don’t think I’ve ever seen so much dry, dead grass.

I, for one, am very grateful for my neighborhood turning the streets into cooler, greener little oases for pedestrians. Perhaps those eucalyptus trees the Schönbrunner Zoo keeps for its koalas will be of use in providing avenues of shade in the decades to come, who knows …

sleepyguy 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You don't have to take a train trip, all the grass along side the roadways looks like straw, at least around St Marx/Arena Wien/Gasometer.