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pfannkuchen 10 hours ago

You first link specifically says “by mistake”.

What percent of cases does this happen in?

If we have an imperfect system we don’t have rule of law? When has anyone ever had a perfect system?

Why do you need to be so hyperbolic? It makes it hard to take you seriously.

Can you restate your case in a non-hyperbolic fashion, ideally while taking some breaths? I am listening, but I just can’t stomach this kind of hysterical rhetoric, and so far you haven’t made a case without it, nor has anybody else I’ve read.

> Every case where a judge has said ICE violated a court order.

I don’t trust the courts already, so I need to understand at a conceptual level what sort of due process is being ignored. And I don’t really understand why people on your side aren’t stating it like that generally, uuuunless they don’t really have a strong case (not saying they don’t definitively but based on what I’ve seen written about this topic generally that is my starting place mentally, if there are strong conceptual arguments, where are they hiding!).

JumpCrisscross 10 hours ago | parent [-]

> You first link specifically says “by mistake”

What happened after the mistake was caught? ICE dug its heels in. Some of these cases are ongoing.

> What percent of cases does this happen in?

We don’t know. We don’t have adequate records. Judges threatening to hold the administration in contempt have been asking for these and getting stonewalled.

> If we have an imperfect system we don’t have rule of law?

When judges are ignored, and complain they’re being ignored, yes.

> Can you restate your case in a non-hyperbolic fashion, ideally while taking some breaths?

Not sure if this is supposed to be ironic.

The definition of a concentration camp is a prison for politically-targeted demographics. When ICE openly admits it uses racial profiling, imprisons Americans because of their race, and then refuses to correct its mistakes to the point of having hundreds of judges around the country threatening contempt, or, alternatively, refuses to produce documents even identifying who these people are and where they’ve been shipped, yes, you need to be flexible with the definition to the point that the Jewish removals in the 1930s—and certainly the Japanese internment in WWII—would struggle to qualify.

> I don’t trust the courts already

You should have opened with this. The executive overruling the judiciary is literally the definition of losing the rule of law.

> don’t really understand why people on your side aren’t stating it like that generally, uuuunless they don’t really have a strong case

I don’t have a side on this. I think we have an illegal immigration problem and a brownshirt/concentration camp problem. The fact that Trump is deporting a fraction of what Obama did with an order of magnitude more funds sort of points to the grift that’s being run. The fact that it’s being excused by his supporters underlines either their media illiteracy or that the illegal-immigration argument was cover for something coming close to ethnic cleansing. (It takes acrobatics to pretend e.g. Miller isn’t explicitly for this.)

Which is fine. It looks like Trump has abandoned the GOP, and the midterms will bring some stability to that.