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California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law(tomshardware.com)
186 points by shscs911 4 hours ago | 47 comments
cm2187 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Excellent. From now on all kids will become linux natives. The decade of the linux desktop is coming!

injidup 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

So I run my app in a linux container under windows and I'm exempt from age verification? Isn't android linux under the hood? I'm sure the law is not so easy to get around. How does it work?

dgoldstein0 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

It sounds like since Android is a commercial repackaging of Linux it's in scope and Google gets to figure it out.

thelastgallon 37 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Linux phones, Linux gaming machines, Linux on Desktop and Laptops, Linux VR/AR, Linux watches, etc.

dgoldstein0 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Or more likely companies and people will just comply. It might give a little more fuel to open source from people who are ardently pro privacy that balk at an age signal bring implemented, but I don't think that's such a huge segment of users.

close04 28 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

And then the exception will evaporate overnight.

shuwix 17 minutes ago | parent [-]

One gotta love politicians and their "solutions" and their longevity.

rbbydotdev 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

this bill fixes nothing. if you wanted to prevent harm from the internet you would start with proper privacy laws. but we all know why that will never happen

nottorp 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Linux?

Or also BSD, ReactOS, hobby OS #24562 etc... ?

russellbeattie 6 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[delayed]

gspr an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Rest of the headline: "software distributed under the GPL, MIT, BSD, and Apache licenses are exempt"

And then further into the text it's clarified that there also isn't a specific list of open licenses, as the terrible headline would have you believe, but instead a description of what is considered open

With the caveat that I haven't read the actual legal text, this seems to be an eminently sensible law (it'd be better if it weren't needed, but here we are).

In summary: not a Linux exemption, and not an exemption for a specific list of licenses either.

anigbrowl 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Weird how the people who habitually complain about government are conspicuously silent when it delivers something they wanted.

sbuttgereit 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I habitually complain about government... so let me help you out with this.

The original issue with the law was never that those poor open source developers were going to have to bear the burden of complying with the law, but that the law itself was a bald-faced invasion of privacy by an overbearing troupe of people in power (i.e., government) so shit-sure of their superiority over the simple common folk they govern (i.e., you and me) that they aren't even embarrassed by their own arrogance.

I would suggest that what "we wanted" is no such law at all. What would be weird, and worthy of comment, is if those of us that complain about government were actually satisfied by an exemption which only applies to pretty damn tiny slice of the market. If anything, that wasn't a victory for privacy or common sense, but rather a concession that they had foolishly created a law that they wouldn't have been able to enforce as broadly as they thought they could get away with... or if they tried to enforce it they'd have to contend with the optics of the big hand of government yet again crushing individuals whose only real crime was their altruism rather than just some giant corporation.

So it isn't weird at all that "we're" silent. This isn't a win. Pointing out that the law had unintended consequences, including with Linux, et al., wasn't a statement of objective but rather a simple show that the law was rife with thoughtless unintended consequences. The legislature's act here didn't restore privacy nor did it remove all unintended consequences: if anything just raises questions about equal protection under law, at least on some practical level. It raises the question why some users of computers need such protections as age verification and others don't, and why the licensing terms of the OS are a valid proxy for that need... taking for granted that the stated purposes of the law are the real ones, of course.

missinglugnut an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What do you want people to say? "Yay, the terrible law that threatened to make free computing illegal has an exemption for Linux. Now we only have to deal with unwanted mandatory age verification on all our non-linux devices. I'm so happy."

PowerElectronix 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They shouldn't need to pass this if they didn't pass age verification at all.

This is not a good thing, it's a very small patch for a very bad thing.

Frannky an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A lot of people are not stupid. Age verification is a backdoor for control. I read and did not even bother to comment, it's like yay, that horrendous thing they were trying to do now it's not applied to everyone. I'm also sorry for California, such a beautiful place and full of wonderful people. I hope it will recover one day.

throwawayqqq11 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is not wanted, its duct taping a bad idea even further and i half-wish MS/apple/co sue against it. This may cause lawmakers to bounce back in the wrong direction though.

edot 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah, this is fantastic. Should be top of the page. I’m honestly shocked, I’ve fully internalized that everything is corrupt and beholden to big corporations. Somehow, a victory! Looks like the Linux Foundation and EFF pushed back, but they’re not exactly big. Good job, California lawmakers!

roenxi 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> Good job, California lawmakers!

Is this serious or sarcasm? They passed a horrible law, now its an internally contradictory horrible law because apparently it isn't important enough to consistently enforce. So, you know. Why legislate it?

There isn't much of an angle here that reflects well on Californian lawmakers, they're still supporting this authoritarian trend of de-anonymisation and rolling back free communication on the internet. They're just going to come back for linux later once the idea of legally mandated PII on account registration is normalised. Although I do see this "In addition, lawmakers inserted a new provision prohibiting anyone from requesting an age signal from an OS provider or app store unless required by law" so we seem to be entering a wild space where they're going to try and micromanage this in a weird way.

zoobab an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Not a victory, Android is still covered.

qmarchi an hour ago | parent [-]

Hard to argue that it's open source...

catlikesshrimp an hour ago | parent [-]

Graphene should qualify. That would be a good incentive for kids to learn to root a mobile device and run graphene on it.

harvey9 36 minutes ago | parent [-]

I used the web based installer and it was so easy that we would be complaining the kids are not really learning anything by doing it!

carodgers 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"Delivers something they wanted" is the most bizarre way possible to phrase "followed through with the majority of a reprehensible agenda and were forced to carve out an exception due to technical constraints and massive blowback."

Pavilion2095 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The age verification requirement wasn't dropped, what are you talking about? Linux getting an exemption isn't a win.

colordrops 10 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They didn't "deliver something we wanted". They decided NOT to fuck us over. I guess we should thank them for that?

antonvs an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It delivered an arbitrary exception to a stupid law. If all someone wanted was an exception for Linux, they don’t understand the problem with this law.

cwillu 36 minutes ago | parent [-]

“California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law — software distributed under the GPL, MIT, BSD, and Apache licenses are exempt”

squigz an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Indeed, this is very generous of them, and we should be thankful.

catlikesshrimp an hour ago | parent [-]

Sounds more like they did their job well, not that they are generous.

conartist6 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I love that Microsoft is committing a crime by continuing to let me use Win10

phendrenad2 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm starting to warm up to this law. So many loopholes. Nothing to worry about. I think California's incompetence has finally progressed from "proposes bad laws" to "proposes and botches the implementation of bad laws"

arjie 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

If you had an agent in the legislature wouldn’t you prefer exactly one of this form? My ideal representative is able to command support from diverse interests and subtly damages those opposed to me while subtly advantaging the principles I believe in - making compromises necessary to move incrementally to a state more aligned with what I wish it to be.

The reality is that many people want bad laws. Without the support of those people one does not get elected.

This use of people for power while de-facto disenfranchising them is pretty widespread already. For instance, some half of California and Texas are responsible for their strength in the electoral college while simultaneously being entirely disenfranchised when electing the President. Good technique.

catlikesshrimp an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Can someone the exemption for browser extensions and other contained software? My best guess is that the OS > Browser are reporting the age already, and the browser extensions will also use that "signal". Is this close enough?

" third carve-out excludes storefronts distributing extensions or add-ons that run exclusively inside a host application, which takes browser extension stores out of scope."

kersplody 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Cool now let's exempt hobbyists from the 3-D printer must certify you are not printing gun parts pending legislation.

rgmerk 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

A quick search suggests that 3D-printed guns being used in crime is an actual, for-real, and growing problem.

I take it that you wouldn't be OK with somebody building a uranium enrichment facility in their backyard for their hobby reactor. So there is a line to be drawn on where people's freedom to tinker ends; it's just a question of where you draw it.

Personally, I think given there is actual documented, non-isolated problem with 3D printed guns being used for violent crime, there's a debate to be had that's more sophisticated than "REGULATION BAD".

tancop 26 minutes ago | parent [-]

My position on anything is "REGULATION BAD" when it's against individuals and non commercial/open source projects, "REGULATION GOOD" for massive corporations, and "REGULATION MAYBE GOOD NEEDS NUANCED DEBATE" for anything in between.

xyproto a few seconds ago | parent | next [-]

What do you mean by regulation? Laws that could lead to a fine or jail time, or the enforcement of laws through ie. the police?

rgmerk 4 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Non-commercial projects and individuals can do bad stuff too.

I agree the bar is a lot higher for those projects than massive corporations, but I think it's a pretty arguable case that "people are using 3D printers to make guns with features that would otherwise be illegal, and they are being used in crimes in some number" clears that bar.

ghssds an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And now a bunch of OSI-Approved licenses get to have special rules applied to them, entrenching them and killing further innovation.

greyface- an hour ago | parent [-]

The bill exempts:

> a person or entity that distributes an operating system or application under license terms that permit a recipient to copy, redistribute, and modify the software

which at least doesn't choose specific winners and losers among licenses. It does disfavor license-free and public domain software, which isn't great.

pritambaral an hour ago | parent [-]

> It does disfavor license-free and public domain software, which isn't great.

Public domain software is free to "copy, redistribute, and modify", so ... where's the disfavour?

greyface- 33 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

It only applies to software distributed under a license. Public domain software isn't distributed under a license. It's in the public domain; no license is needed.

thorbutt 27 minutes ago | parent [-]

Can you name an OS that's licensed as public domain?

greyface- 16 minutes ago | parent [-]

https://www.pdos.org/ Public Domain Operating System

tancop 29 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Technically you could argue that public domain works don't have license terms that make them free so the exception can't apply. Only an ignorant or ultra literalist judge would see it that way but you never know.

On the other hand a public domain dedication is a binding term that gives you permission (or license) to do what you want...

hardwaresofton 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

AGPL…?