| ▲ | Algorithmic Rent-Pricing Litigation Expands Under New State and Local Laws(morganlewis.com) |
| 47 points by toomuchtodo 3 hours ago | 20 comments |
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| ▲ | aorloff an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| In the People's Republic of Berkeley, our City Council patted themselves on the back in March 2025 when they passed similar laws. Then they got sued by the company that was targeted, and immediately waffled and canceled the ban. What's insane about all of this is that we also have Rent Control. There is no greater price fixing mechanism than Rent Control. Rent Control ensures that all landlords must seek the highest possible rent, because they are (potentially) tethered to it for life (of the tenant). So if you create an economic system where sellers never will allow prices to go down, why bother banning price fixing -- its practically baked into the housing code. |
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| ▲ | Chinjut an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Why would landlords not seek the highest possible rent without rent control? | | |
| ▲ | Aurornis 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Under rent control the highest possible rent is set by laws. If you fall behind on the allowed rent increase you’re usually not allowed to catch up to market rate later, such as when your tenant leaves and you put the unit back on the market. So to avoid getting stuck at below market rate with no legal way to catch up, you have to take the maximum allowable rent increase every year. In some situations it’s better to leave a unit empty and wait for someone be willing to rent at the rate than it is to lower rent, because the consequences of lowering rent will stick with the unit for years. Without rent control, rents can be kept constant, moved up, or moved down without having to consider the consequences for years to come. Rent control is instituted in cities that have constrained housing supplies, so the demand is there. Landlords switch to raising rents in unison by the maximum allowable amount every year because that’s the only way to operate. | |
| ▲ | sophrosyne42 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | They would. But second order effects ensure that this very act leads to the decline of housing prices. These effects being eliminated by rent control makes it the premier anti-tenant policy. | | |
| ▲ | dataflow 39 minutes ago | parent [-] | | What second-order effects...? Feels like such an oddly opqaue way to talk about them. And how do you ignore the effect of the fact that rent no longer rises during the life of the tenant, making it lower after a while than it would otherwise be...? (How) is it so obvious that that is dwarfed by the second-order effects of uncontrolled rent that it doesn't even warrant a mention? Because it isn't to me. | | |
| ▲ | Espressosaurus a minute ago | parent | next [-] | | If rent no longer rises then the profit doesn't rise commensurately with demand, so the money isn't there to build supply. Rent control crushes supply to the degree that the rent control caps rents below the actual market rate. If you're lucky enough to get rent controlled housing then you're in good shape. But good luck getting it when things get far enough down the timeline. | |
| ▲ | Aurornis 2 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > And how do you ignore the effect of the fact that rent no longer rises during the life of the tenant, Rent control schemes don’t work like this, except in completely broken policies. Landlords are given an allowance for rent control increases year over year. The point is that they basically have to take the maximum allowed every year to avoid getting stuck. | |
| ▲ | lotsofpulp 8 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Prices are a signal, and price changes are how market participants can determine which way supply and demand curves are moving. By legislating prices and price changes, the signal is muddied, and market participants cannot take action to match the movements of the supply and demand curves. Prop 13’s property tax rate increase cap is also price fixing. These kinds of laws are mostly ways to enrich and reward those who got or were born somewhere first, and run counter to the vaunted meritocracy that a so called free market can encourage. |
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| ▲ | petesergeant 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Every rental unit in the city I live in is rent controlled — the government sets a maximum rental increase per unit per year. This is here in the People’s Republic of … checks notes … Dubai. It works great. | | |
| ▲ | oopsieDayz 15 minutes ago | parent [-] | | HN user accounts 10+ years old tend to be coupled to a younger Boomer or older GenXer who lucked into an early tech career and believe they're a genius unintentionally being born before the world got expensive through intentional financial engineering Bunch of self absorbed people who rode safely and on the rails of their culture and think they're a novel thinker pedaling banal cable news tropes of their bygone days | | |
| ▲ | defrost a minute ago | parent [-] | | Bit of a lazy sweeping generalisation even if you have squarely spiked a few. |
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| ▲ | nativeit an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I’d imagine it’s not so simple, especially without a functional legislative branch, but we could really use a “digital bill of rights” that could provide a comprehensive set of baseline protections and standards for things like this, online privacy, data protection, whatever stops Meta/X/et al from being maximally harmful, etc.. |
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| ▲ | ElProlactin 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sadly, you can not legislate a culture of decency. |
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| ▲ | hiddencost 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Do car dealerships next... |
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| ▲ | toomuchtodo 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| From https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/monopoly-round-up-time-ba... > Our work against algorithmic rent-fixing is starting to bear real fruit. Multiple cities have passed laws prohibiting corporate landlords from using rent-fixing software, including San Francisco, San Diego, Seattle, Philadelphia, and Providence, RI. These laws aren’t complex and don’t require unwieldy market definition, you just have to show that the defendant is using nonpublic information in an algorithm to set prices. And they are being enforced, with six different lawsuits now pending. |
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| ▲ | boredatoms an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Will they just stop using an ‘algorithm’ and have a mathematician sit there and state numbers that are of unknown origin? | |
| ▲ | demibabs 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Can you elaborate on what is meant by “rent-fixing”? | | |
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