Remix.run Logo
Remix clone Hacker News
new | show | ask | jobsGithub
▲ sdcfgy a day ago

Urgh I was about to buy one for GOS. Maybe back to iPhone it is.

▲grapheneos a day ago | parent | next [-]

You can get a Pixel 10 or wait for the upcoming Motorola flagship with GrapheneOS support. Pixel 11 only has an incremental CPU upgrade and the same GPU as the Pixel 11 anyway. It isn't much of a hardware upgrade and is even a downgrade for RAM with the base Pro devices. It's more expensive than the Pixel 10 was too.

The upcoming Motorola flagship will have a dramatically better CPU and GPU than the Pixel 11 and competitive cameras. It will still have 7 years of updates, MTE and a secure element with the features used by GrapheneOS. Motorola Signature (2026) is the predecessor not quite meeting our requirements mainly due to lack of MTE but also lack of other features which had to be developed.

▲WinstonSmith84 a day ago | parent | next [-]

Motorola doesn't have a great track records for flagships smartphones. I will keep finger crossed that we won't have to choose again between security and features but either way it's a great news, and I truly hope that GrapheneOS will be adopted by more manufacturers in the future

▲grapheneos a day ago | parent [-]

Motorola Signature (2026) was well received. They committed to 7 years of updates and provided top tier smartphones cameras which were previous limitations. Razr Fold (2026) has the top rated camera for a folding device on DXOMARK, unlike the huge camera downgrade for folding Pixels.

https://www.dxomark.com/smartphones/

We aren't sure when the first Motorola folding devices we can support will be released, but that will happen.

▲aboringusername a day ago | parent [-]

One detail that remains to be seen is whether you'll cater to the EU market, and how the impact of the memory crisis will impact the possible consumer-base. It's a weak market and sales are likely to be only the 'hardcore' users who demand/require security. I sincerely hope there are no numbers you need to hit to keep the partnership going. Sales are not likely to be at first significant, people are extremely price sensitive and I'm not sure GrapheneOS support will draw people in enough to justify the obviously now inflated costs to cover component price increases (and tariffs).

Pixels offer affordable options which is why unless you can cater to that market, a Motorola-only GrapheneOS future will only gain traction if you're able to get a cheaper low/mid-range option out there, akin to the Pixel A-series.

▲ysnp 15 hours ago | parent [-]

Much of that is out of their hands unfortunately. Motorola don't use the latest Snapdragon SoCs in most of their more affordable models, and Qualcomm are the only ones so far (outside Samsung/Google) who seem willing to support what is needed (MTE, Android SE imp etc.)

▲OJFord a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is the Motorola partnership that they're ensuring support in the phone, and helping the port with docs/support perhaps, or is it even actually shipping with GrapheneOS?

▲grapheneos a day ago | parent [-]

They're implementing all of the features required by GrapheneOS, are helping us port GrapheneOS to the devices and may help us maintain it. They'll provide us with the drivers and firmware needed to support it too. Selling devices with GrapheneOS is planned but the details and timeline aren't worked out.

▲fooqux a day ago | parent | next [-]

> Selling devices with GrapheneOS is planned but the details and timeline aren't worked out.

I hope they get worked out in short order. I'd love to buy one preconfigured if for no other reason then I'd like to show my support.

It also shows more of a commitment by Motorola. Harder to suddenly forget about providing you with what you need if they're selling gOS preinstalled.

▲tadfisher a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wouldn't OHA agreements prevent shipping a non-Google-certified Android? Unless you mean a future device with GrapheneOS might potentially go through CTS and ship with Google apps preinstalled?

▲grapheneos a day ago | parent [-]

OEMs are fully allowed to include official support for GrapheneOS and sell batches of devices to companies selling those devices with GrapheneOS. It isn't hard to work around Google's licensing terms. It's already being done by multiple OEMs today.

Google's licensing terms are also clearly a blatant violation of antitrust law. The licensing terms have already been invalidated in multiple countries including South Korea. Samsung is no longer bound by the same terms, which isn't fair to other OEMs.

▲OJFord a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Cool! Thanks.

▲matheusmoreira a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Eagerly waiting for the Motorola flagship! Will it be released worldwide?

▲grapheneos a day ago | parent [-]

It should be more globally available than Pixels. Look at the availability of the existing Motorola Signature (2026) or the more recently launched Razr Fold (2026) and Razr Ultra (2026). Those 2026 devices won't support GrapheneOS, but the successor the Motorola Signature will. We don't know precise details about folding devices yet.

▲prism56 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

One thing about Motorola. They aren't known for supporting devices long term with fast updates.

Is there any guarantee that in 4 years this device will be getting monthly patches, source and builds regularly?

▲grapheneos a day ago | parent | next [-]

Motorola Signature (2026) has 7 years of support and the successor to it is what we'll be supporting. GrapheneOS will be providing the updates for a device running GrapheneOS so it doesn't particularly matter how quickly they ship the AOSP patches or major Android updates themselves. GrapheneOS already provides AOSP patches months before Pixels via our security preview releases. We provide Linux kernel patches many months earlier than Pixels but it's currently limited by the speed of Greg KH's GKI LTS branch unless we start doing it ourselves again.

Motorola will directly Qualcomm firmware and drivers we need which are mainly from Qualcomm. The updates will be up to us.

▲lawn a day ago | parent | prev [-]

That's the point of GrapheneOS. They've been excellent at providing fast updates and long-term support for their supported devices.

Let Motorola do the hardware and GrapheneOS the software.

▲its-summertime a day ago | parent | next [-]

As far as I know, only Motorola is given access to the driver source code for all the chips, which then as part of using it, they are obligated to release it, which then GrapheneOS can then access and use it.

As a result, Motorola's software support is just as important as Motorola's hardware

▲grapheneos a day ago | parent [-]

We won't have to depend on Motorola's public OS releases for access to the firmware and drivers as we do for Pixels. We'll also have access to a lot more than what's mandatory to provide due to GPLv2.

▲its-summertime a day ago | parent [-]

Oh that is very exciting to hear!

▲izacus a day ago | parent | prev [-]

GrapheneOS is fully dependant on the OEM of the phone to supply them with up to date drivers and can't support their builds longer than that.

▲grapheneos a day ago | parent [-]

We won't have to depend on Motorola's public OS releases for access to the firmware and drivers as we do for Pixels though.

▲izacus 19 hours ago | parent [-]

Let's see how that goes considering Motorola's track record of support :)

▲matheusmoreira a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Same here! I had everything lined up to import the phone just for GrapheneOS!

Google just can't help being a fucking disappointment at every single opportunity!

▲grapheneos a day ago | parent [-]

You can get a Pixel 10 or wait for the upcoming Motorola flagship with GrapheneOS support. Pixel 11 only has an incremental CPU upgrade and the same GPU as the Pixel 11 anyway. It isn't much of a hardware upgrade and is even a downgrade for RAM with the base Pro devices. It's more expensive than the Pixel 10 was too.

The upcoming Motorola flagship will have a dramatically better CPU and GPU than the Pixel 11 and competitive cameras. It will still have 7 years of updates, MTE and a secure element with the features used by GrapheneOS. Motorola Signature (2026) is the predecessor not quite meeting our requirements mainly due to lack of MTE but also lack of other features which had to be developed.

▲inigyou a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Just buy whichever device GOS does support right now. It's always been very picky about device support.

▲ysnp a day ago | parent [-]

They have bare minimum sane standards for device support but it seems picky from the outside because most Android OEMs are incompetent.

▲inigyou a day ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

▲grapheneos a day ago | parent [-]

GrapheneOS doesn't require any unusual security features. It only requires industry standard security features which are widely acknowledged as being important. There hasn't been a non-Pixel device meeting our listed requirements yet but Motorola's 2026 flagships are close and at least one will meet all our requirements and be officially supported in 2027.

▲wolvoleo a day ago | parent | next [-]

How are those features industry standard if most of the industry doesn't have them? Serious question.

I applaud you guys aiming high but it is high IMO. But I do worry about the cost of entry. The pixel a series were just really good value. A Motorola flagship phone is too expensive for me.

▲grapheneos a day ago | parent [-]

MTE is a standard ARM security feature. Simply using standard ARM cores and cache was enough to provide MTE and that's why the Pixel 8 was able to provide it.

Pixel 8 through Pixel 10a have MTE and so does the iPhone 17. iPhones have above 50% usage share in the US and various other countries along with at least around 30% in most of Europe.

▲wolvoleo 21 hours ago | parent [-]

Ah I see but if it's standard in arm why don't other brands have it? As far as I understand Samsung use standard arm cores too, ever since they dropped their mongoose design. Not sure about Qualcomm.

Ps again not trying to make an argument, I'm just interested. Though I do hope for more budget options even if it has to be a lower grade under a different branding. But having the full GOS on an affordable device would be even better.

Apple for me isn't an option due to price and limited access to the system either by the way (like being limited to the app store)

▲grapheneos 20 hours ago | parent [-]

Samsung does have MTE on certain devices. They don't allow us to support their devices by either not allowing another OS or crippling functionality including security for them. Samsung has nearly all of our security requirements on certain devices but that doesn't mean we can support them. Samsung also does decent updates for the drivers and firmware on their flagships too. Samsung is welcome to work with us and have GrapheneOS support for their devices.

GrapheneOS supports 'a' series Pixels and those provide the same security and updates as the higher end devices. A used Pixel 8a is a very affordable device with great overall security nearly as good as a Pixel 10 and plenty of update support remaining. Pixels are not available in enough countries but the 'a' series devices combined with the long support they receive already provides very affordable devices in countries where they've been available for years.

Qualcomm was quite late to providing MTE due to their custom cores. Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5 does provide MTE, as will the next generation SoC used on the initial Motorola phone with GrapheneOS support.

▲inigyou 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Clearly these features are unusual since they're only supported on about five phones and none of the current generation.