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bestouff a day ago

They also say that the Pixel 11 is a very very tiny improvement wrt the Pixel 10, with less RAM and more expensive.

So basically they say don't buy it, wait for the Motorola phones.

grapheneos a day ago | parent | next [-]

Pixel 11 has an incremental upgrade to the CPU, the same underpowered GPU and less RAM for the base Pro models. It has a new major version of the secure element (Titan M3) which likely greatly improves Before First Unlock state security for users without a strong passphrase. It has a better radio from a performance and efficiency perspective but it's still a more than yearly generation behind Qualcomm. The cellular radio firmware is also likely a security downgrade but the userspace code is more secure due to moving to AOSP IMS code. If these devices hadn't removed MTE, then they would have been a sidegrade with marginally better security. Removing MTE ruins these devices for GrapheneOS. We could still support the Pixel 11 series but it would be greatly rolling back overall security to before the Pixel 8. It does at least have PAC and BTI but MTE was the main improvement with the Pixel 8 rather than those.

yaro330 a day ago | parent [-]

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kqp a day ago | parent | next [-]

The CPU is 10-15% faster, that’s incremental in use even if it’s technically interesting.

Lots of apps and websites only run smoothly on newer GPUs, too. You can play the “they’re dumb and I just won’t use them” game, but not everybody has your priorities, and it’s a relevant factor either way.

The modem comment, likewise, is simply correct, and evaluating performance is good even when shortcomings are understandable.

They supported Pixel 10 because they supported every new Pixel that wasn’t a security downgrade and shortly preceding a better alternative. The logic isn’t “performance bad therefore no upgrade”, it’s “no upgrade for a bunch of other reasons, and it’s not like we’re missing out on a 3x performance improvement”.

yaro330 a day ago | parent [-]

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grapheneos a day ago | parent [-]

Pixel 10a is the most recently released recommended device. It has the same SoC as the 9th generation Pixels with a far better cellular radio than the Pixel 9a.

Pixel 9 to Pixel 10 had a bigger incremental CPU upgrade than the Pixel 10 to Pixel 11. GPU was initially a downgrade due to poor drivers but that was resolved already.

Pixel 10 has various small but significant security advantages over the Pixel 9. Pixel 11 would similarly have small security advantages if they hadn't ruined the overall security by removing MTE.

We definitely do want better CPU, GPU and radio performance for flagship devices and haven't been happy with those on Pixels. It doesn't outweigh security updates and security features but it matters to us. We're going to be a lot happier with a next gen flagship Snapdragon SoC for many reasons.

grapheneos a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Getting a 15% increase to CPU performance is an incremental upgrade to the CPU performance. We expected a much better improvement from the new CPU architecture. It's quite disappointing and the removal of MTE support is even more disappointing. Using HWASan instead of MTE would have around 2x CPU overhead, 25% memory overhead and would not provide nearly as much of the security benefits due to only working for code instrumented with it. Compared to doing memory tagging using HWASan, decent MTE support is an incredible performance boost.

GrapheneOS works well for running games and people can toggle off hardened_malloc and MTE for a game to eliminate nearly all of the performance difference. It doesn't usually make any noticeable difference. GrapheneOS is intended to be fully usable by everyone including people who care about GPU performance whether it's for games or other apps. Claiming GrapheneOS isn't gaming focused is your opinion. We care a lot about compatibility with games and have put effort into it. Pixels using a GPU with poor gaming compatibility and performance wasn't our choice and doesn't mean we don't care about it.

> and the same modem

Pixel 10a has a drastically better cellular radio than the Pixel 9a. The 'a' series Pixels are consistently the most popular devices supported by GrapheneOS. Pixel 10a is still the latest one so there isn't going to be any gap in people being able to buy a new device for GrapheneOS if we don't add the Pixel 11 and instead skip right to Motorola flagships and then more Motorola devices. We hope the Pixel 12 adds back MTE support but aren't optimistic.

> back to GOS?

You're directing abusive comments towards our team based on highly inaccurate harassment content.

yaro330 14 hours ago | parent [-]

So he is. It all makes sense now. Cheers and good luck.

Limit5332 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

They have their reasons. Pixels are only getting worse and worse after the 9

hypercube33 a day ago | parent [-]

IMO they peaked with the Nexus 6 - camera has gotten worse and they make up with it in software or try to. You could and can see this at night or stacked shots in N6 vs pixel 4,5,6.

They bought the best phone hardware and software companies (Motorola and Android) and gutted them both.

grapheneos a day ago | parent | next [-]

They purchased Motorola Mobility for the patent portfolio as essentially a nuclear deterrent against Apple and then sold it to Lenovo. They're doing quite well internationally but haven't been a big brand in the US for a while. Their flagship phones are going to have GrapheneOS as a selling point soon and we'll hopefully be able to expand beyond the high end over the next couple years.

GeekyBear a day ago | parent [-]

> They purchased Motorola Mobility for the patent portfolio as essentially a nuclear deterrent against Apple

By Apple, you mean Microsoft.

The early Android device makers had to pay a per device patent licensing fee to Microsoft.

Google sued Microsoft for massive amounts of money using video standards essential patents they purchased from Motorola, but it didn't work out well for them in court.

https://www.ft.com/content/46d36fce-15c6-11e3-950a-00144feab...

grapheneos a day ago | parent [-]

Apple was actively going after Android OEMs including Samsung too. We did mean Apple but Microsoft was also relevant. The point was that they primarily bought Motorola Mobility to strip mine it for patents.

GeekyBear 18 hours ago | parent [-]

The company that Google targeted with their Motorola patents was Microsoft.

Google sought to ban the sale of Microsoft products that used the H.264 video standard on a global basis if Microsoft didn't hand over a literal fortune.

> Microsoft and Motorola are embroiled in a legal spat around the world over the software giant’s alleged use of Motorola industry-standard H.264 patents in its many products. Motorola has argued that Microsoft has used the technology illegally and should have its products banned until it licenses them.

Motorola says that Microsoft should pay $4 billion for the use of its technology, applying a 2.25 percent royalty based on product price.

https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/microsoft-wins-big-o...

canucker2016 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Google also bought the HTC hardware folks for the Pixel phones - see https://www.engadget.com/2017-09-20-google-buys-htc-pixel-te...

Nexus 4-6 were manufactured by LG IIRC.

Grazester 7 hours ago | parent [-]

The Nexus 6 is a Motorola phone

belowavgiq a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There is really no "they", all Nexus phones weren't made by Google. Hence why, the 5X aside, everyone has nice memories of them.

wolvoleo a day ago | parent [-]

The nexus 4 was also really mediocre. Only partial 4g and poor battery life iirc.

The nexus 5 also by LG was bulls eye though. Except for the ceramic letters constantly falling off.

Grazester 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As someone who has a Nexus 6. You are delusional to say the camera was better than anything Pixel.

IneffablePigeon a day ago | parent | prev [-]

...have you tried any of the cameras from the last 5 years or just the pixel 6? My 11 pro's cameras are by far the best cameras I've ever used on a smartphone, my previous iPhone included.

kuschku a day ago | parent [-]

Have you seen the raw images you get out of those cameras? They're still the same grainy low res webcam sensors they were 10 years ago (if not worse), most of the improvement is just AI hallucinating details.