100% same. So many apps are just a WebView vessel for Crashlytics and Sentry and Dog knows how much more tracking. (My phone is always VPNed into my home network which has DNS-level ad and tracker blocking. This doesn't cover all the bases though.)

Some, like Home Depot, have websites that are terrible and battery-draining enough to make the app nominally useful by comparison.

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4chandaily 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>Some, like Home Depot, have websites that are terrible and battery-draining enough to make the app nominally useful by comparison.

I don't take this as a signal to install the app. It is a signal to avoid the store. They clearly don't feel like they need to work to gain your business, and instead take it for granted. You can see this indicated by their actions - they clearly feel that it is more profitable to inconvenience you for a token amount of tracking data than to serve your needs. Why continue to use them?

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mikepurvis 8 hours ago | parent [-]

There are a lot of businesses that have a semi-captive hold on a market. Like a recent example was I drove my daughter and I to a stage play, and to pay for street parking I had to install an app, make an account, and add a credit card. A thing that should have been scan the QR code and click one button to mobile pay became a five minute ordeal.

In theory we could have gotten back in the car and looked for parking elsewhere but the curtain was in 30 minutes and who's to say they didn't have a contract with the city that covered all the parking?

Overall a very hostile experience and I was annoyed about how little I felt I had a choice in it.

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a2tech 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Just don’t pay. I stopped paying for street parking a long time ago (around the time they started insisting on apps). You get a ticket once and awhile but it all works out.

Mail in a check a few times a year and park whenever you want.

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mikepurvis 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Valid, though I expect this being down the block from the festival theatre, it probably was being actively patrolled. I was a bit shaken by a prominent sign threatening a $400 fine for illegal parking, though having just checked the website for the City of Stratford, it looks like the standard municipal parking ticket is $40 if paid promptly, so the $400 fine was probably specific to parking in the theatre's dropoff zone or fire access or something.

All that say, I think you're probably right... next time instead of using my phone to install and sign up for a parking app, I'll just use it to check what the fine is and wipe hands on pants.

	▲	a2tech 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Yeah usually that’s for fire parking etc. loading zones don’t usually get the super high fine treatment.

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dredmorbius 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's all fun and games until your ride gets towed.

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inigyou 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It should have been put coins in a slot.

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bigstrat2003 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Or use your card on the machine. We had that for a while, but then these stupid parking companies started to get traction.

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mikepurvis 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, just a plain tap-to-pay on the meter itself (or a nearby kiosk) is the obvious solution. I think doing it on the meter is awkward because then they all need to be online, so you're either dealing with individual M2M cards or some kind of local mesh network, not to mention powering them all. The kiosk is another thing to have to install and maintain and power. And doing a plain tap would have no way of inputting how long you wanted to pay for.

All that to say, I can fully understand how we ended up with "here's a sticker with a number on it, pay on your phone"; it's just, the pay on your phone option should be a one step apple/google pay webpage where you at most have to enter your license plate, and it certainly should not be collecting credit card details within the app.

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inigyou 6 hours ago | parent [-]

And what if I don't use Apple Pay or Google Pay?

	▲	brewdad 19 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Enter a credit/debit card number then. They are under zero obligation to allow you a cash payment method.

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mikepurvis 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Ehh maybe. I mean, it was a three hour show and I don't carry coins any more. So that would have been ATM -> go to a store and break a twenty -> put in a few bucks -> remember to go out at intermission and put in more money.

Paying by phone is a step up from that old world; I just want it to be one tap, not a whole sequence that tries to upsell me on a monthly pass or establishing an in-app "parking wallet" or whatever.

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inigyou 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Not carrying coins is your own fault, not the system's. You can't refuse the analog solutions and then complain the digital ones are too digital.

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mikepurvis 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I guess, but no one carries coins, and the machine doesn't accept them. Me not having coins changed nothing about this situation.

	▲	inigyou 7 hours ago \| parent [-]
		You not having coins is one half of the problem. We can't pretend we don't tolerate the abuses of the digital money system, while not carrying analog money - it's completely hypocritical.

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stackghost 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Digital solutions don't have to be abusive.

Where I live the city commissioned its own mobile app for parking, and all numbered parking spots in the city use that app.

There are private lots that use Honk or Robbins or whatever, but the municipal lots and all parallel parking spaces downtown all use the same single app and the revenue goes to the city.

The city parking app works reasonably well, no ads, it just does one thing. If you leave early you open the app and hit "stop parking" and it only charges you the 37 cents or whatever that you actually consumed. It sends you a push notification when your parking is about to expire. And if you don't like the app for whatever reason, you can still pay with a card at the pay machines on every block. It's unglamorous, but it's fantastic technology.

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mikepurvis 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That seems reasonable. The kiosk is still there to pay with cards or cash directly, but the app/website lets you skip that, avoid printing a slip, maybe buy a pass or something.

The risk is mainly that down the road someone looks at the usage numbers and goes hmm, well the kiosk is only getting used 5% of the time, let's just discontinue supporting it.

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inigyou 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That's still one more app, that's not any better if the problem is needing an app.

	▲	stackghost 7 hours ago \| parent [-]
		See my edits. You don't need the app but the experience is strictly better with it. One of the rare cases where the app is value add.

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rovr138 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I have like 5 parking apps. It's exhausting.

The worst part is not that, but.. _which is the app for this area?_

	▲	mikepurvis 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It's definitely a case where I see the value of the Asia-style super apps, where you just attach transactions like this to LINE or Grab or whatever, and everyone knows what to do with it. The only thing remotely comparable in Toronto might be if Presto (payment app for multiple transit agencies in GTHA) took on parking payment, but the Presto network now supports just tapping a credit card so I don't know how many people would be getting cards or using the app for that either.

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wafflemaker 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I didn't want to write in this thread. Complaining is just not good for the person complaining.

But this: >My phone is always VPNed into my home network which has DNS-level ad and tracker blocking. This doesn't cover all the bases though.

Is a great idea for a fun weekend project. Any tips, good practices or things to watch out for when setting it up?

	▲	foobarchu 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Not OP, but with DNS ad blocking like pi-hole you need to be aware that any "normies" living with you will hate it. DNS blockers silently break any kind of "sponsored links" in search results and a lot of the links in email marketing, and most people use those frequently. They don't take kindly to being told they're doing it wrong and have to change their browsing habits for benefits they don't perceive.

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sebastiennight 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> My phone is always VPNed into my home network which has DNS-level ad and tracker blocking.

I've been looking to do this setup. Would you share a few details of which tools you've used?

	▲	efreak 3 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		RethinkDNS does everything for me. You're tied to their DNS server if you want to use the in-app interface to make changes to the blocklists in use, but that's not a hard requirement. As a bonus, it also supports actual VPNs (wireguard, http connect, and socks proxy). If you don't care to micro-manage it, trackercontrol is also pretty good. There's other apps as well, like personalDNSfilter.
	▲	drnick1 4 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		My setup is similar: A server at home runs Unbound for recursive DNS, filtered by Hagezi's blacklists. The phone (running GrapheneOS) consumes the DNS service through a Wireguard tunnel. This is 100% self-hosted and does not rely on Tailscale or a third-party DNS service. All the mobile carrier or WiFi hotspot used sees is a single encrypted connection to the server.
	▲	hydrogen7800 5 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I'm also interested. I use tailscale and there is supposed to be a way to configure it to use my pihole DNS, but there is something in Android that prevents that. I think I have to set a custom DNS on the phone.