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pasquinelli a day ago

maybe a teddy bear does have consciousness too, in the same way you do.

drdeca a day ago | parent | next [-]

Well, maybe, but I find this pretty unlikely?

It seems more likely to me that e.g. the individual fibers of the teddy bear are conscious than that there is a consciousness associated with the teddy bear as a whole. And I don’t find it particularly likely that the fibers do.

Like, by what mechanism is the teddy bear “one thing” in a way relevant for consciousness to be associated with that thing.

When people have stuff happen to their brain, this has an effect on their conscious experience in a way that isn’t true of e.g. their hair being cut, or their nails being clipped. In this way, the consciousness of a person seems associated more with their brain than to parts of their hair or nails. But, the way that a persons hair and nails is related to the rest of a person’s body (including their brain) seems more similar to how one bit of fluff is related to the rest of a teddy bear, than the way a part of someone’s brain is related to the rest of their body (including the rest of their brain).

Like, [bit of fluff]:[rest of bear]::[bit of hair or nail]:[rest of body (including brain)] is a better analogy than [bit of fluff]:[rest of bear]::[bit of brain]:[rest of body (including rest of brain)] is, and so, in the same way that removing a bit of someone’s hair or nail in a way that they don’t notice does not seem to alter that person’s conscious experience, while removing or altering a bit of their brain very much can alter their conscious experience, I would expect that removing a bit of a teddy bear would have no impact on any conscious experience it might have, and this goes for, every part of it? Like, any way that you cut it in a (n/(2n+1)), ((n+1)/(2n+1)) split, I would expect that to be more like the “removing some hair” to whatever conscious experience it might have, and so, I expect that it probably has no overall conscious experience?

I find the idea that a single thread has an overall conscious experience to be a little more likely than a teddy bear having one. Like, if you cut a thread, that’s always a pretty fundamental change.. idk. Again, I don’t think that’s like either.

crooked-v a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It doesn't.

bluefirebrand a day ago | parent | prev [-]

If you want to make that argument, I promise I'll read it, give it honest consideration and offer a thoughtful reply.

Otherwise don't be stupid. Come on.

pasquinelli 20 hours ago | parent [-]

if you're interested it's called panpsychism, the idea that consciousness is a fundemental trait of the universe. it's an idea a little like solipsism, in that people have a reflex against it, but it's pretty hard to make a case against it any stronger than "come on man don't be stupid."

txrx0000 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If by "consciousness" you mean the thing that goes away during general anesthesia, then panpsychism is very unlike solipsism and can be easily refuted by the fact that anesthesia works.

If it isn't that, then we're talking about some non-practical definition, in which case, does that even matter?

bluefirebrand 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I read a bit about it. I'm not convinced

I think Occam's razor is sufficient to reject this as a concept. Panpsychism would introduce a lot of complexity into our understanding of the world without really increasing our ability to explain any of it

I don't feel the need to make a stronger case than that because frankly it strikes me as more like mysticism woo than any sort of real serious philosophy