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| ▲ | GeneralMayhem a day ago | parent | next [-] | | > the point isn't that "Leave to renew" is some kind of horrible policy I mean... "leave to renew" is a horrible policy, it's just one that we've normalized since 9/11. It's incredibly wasteful and disruptive, and serves no purpose. There's no legitimate reason why a long-term residential visa like an H1-B can't be renewed by mail or electronically. I can renew my driver's license by mail, and I'm a hell of a lot more likely to cause serious damage with a car than my foreign coworkers are by continuing to do their jobs well. The reason the State Department hides behind, by the way, is that domestic offices don't have the ability to take biometric data (fingerprints), which is self-evidently pretextual. | | |
| ▲ | bubblethink a day ago | parent [-] | | Right, stateside renewal was common until 9/11. Disappointingly, Biden tried to bring it back but was presumably thwarted by labor/union or incompetence. Immigration tends to be a bipartisan morass. |
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| ▲ | 15155 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | hvb2 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > The terms were clear, visas are a privilege and not a right or automatic entitlement. They are. Yet can you tell me why you would need to pause all processing in order to retrain your people? Surely they do training all the time without pausing processing. Your passport is a right too, you wouldn't mind if they paused that request with no indication of when they might resume? And that's including when you're abroad and lost yours. If that happens to you, you'll happily hold the same position? | | |
| ▲ | 15155 2 days ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | hvb2 a day ago | parent [-] | | I meant that I agreed that visas are a right. > I am a citizen, so this isn't a good faith comparison. Oh, you still are. You'll get your passport, we just can't tell you when. That's what's happening here. These people aren't being denied, they're told to wait for an indefinite amount of time. But basically you're saying that you think this is outrageous if it were you, got it. | | |
| ▲ | 15155 a day ago | parent [-] | | > I meant that I agreed that visas are a right. I've explicitly stated that visas are not a right - which is the legally-consistent opinion and basic English interpretation of the concept. (If visas were a right, why would denial be a possibility? If denial isn't a possibility, what function do they serve?) > That's what's happening here. These people aren't being denied, they're told to wait for an indefinite amount of time. What part of "these people" somehow makes them equivalent in entitlement to a nation's citizens - how is this even a question? Not agreeing that borders, citizenship are concepts generally doesn't make them magically cease to exist. |
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| ▲ | foltik a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Do you have anything constructive to say about the merits of the leave to renew policy itself? Or the zero notice halt of visa processing? Or just vague gesturing about how immigrants aren’t entitled to anything? (but you presumably are!) | | |
| ▲ | 15155 a day ago | parent | next [-] | | > Do you have anything constructive to say about the merits of the leave to renew policy itself? I've discussed this thoroughly in sibling threads: forcing people to leave every once in a while is an extremely useful tool in ensuring that they are maintaining a residence and ties to their home country (where they agreed they would return.) B-1/B-2 are the quintessential examples of visas requiring "leave to renew" - and note: these folks are granted no permission to work or remain in the United States. > immigrants aren’t entitled to anything? (but you presumably are!) I don't feel entitled to anything whatsoever in other countries. As a citizen of the United States, however, our law does indeed entitle me to things that foreign guests have zero expectation or entitlement to. | | |
| ▲ | stackbutterflow a day ago | parent [-] | | >As a citizen of the United States, however, our law does indeed entitle me to things that foreign guests have zero expectation or entitlement to. Based on what? It's a set of arbitrary rules applied within an arbitrarily defined geographical area.
Some people may have decided at some point in history to treat you differently and with more respect than other fellow humans. Some other people may want to treat everyone fairly. All of this is a moral construction. What's for certain though is that you did nothing to deserve to be born where you're born. It follows that you didn't do anything to deserve more rights. | | |
| ▲ | esseph a day ago | parent [-] | | For a lot of Americans, more than you might think, there is this belief that America is #1 in everything because it was Chosen By God, and Manifest Destiny is still real. They were born in the US because god wanted it, so they are the best. God cannot be wrong. I came across this mindset a LOT growing up. |
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| ▲ | dalyons a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You know the answer to this. It’s only going to be anti immigrant dog whistles | |
| ▲ | sirtaj a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | They've found their thought-terminating cliche for a particular topic and apply it liberally. |
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| ▲ | Erem a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | This isn't hard: Just give a notice period if you're going to stop processing visas, so people can sell and ship their shit and break their leases before they go. Just because temporary isn't indefinite doesn't mean we have to be absolute ghouls about how they leave the country |
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