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mariopt a day ago

It's only 320B, local frontier AI is getting closer, sooner than expected.

saberience a day ago | parent | next [-]

It's not possible to keep shrinking down parameters and keep "frontier" performance, it's like saying it's possible to take a 3 hour movie and compress it down to 3 megabytes, there are information theoretic limits on the amount of bits of information that can be compressed.

What I'm saying is, if you're expecting a model that can be run on a 16GB or 32GB machine with the intelligence/knowledge of Mythos or Sol, it will never happen. It cannot happen, just like you cannot watch the Odyssey saved as a 16MB file.

Smaller models can get faster and smarter, but by definition they can never compress all of the knowledge of a frontier model and they will approach a limit by which they cannot get better.

hypfer a day ago | parent | next [-]

You can fit Shrek 1 into a 13mb gif tho

https://www.deviantart.com/sssfjknfvdknj/art/the-ENTIRE-shre...

twobitshifter a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The current models are not close to approaching the limit of compression for intelligence. They aren’t even focused on it like Chinese labs are. The training of Qwen’s 27B parameter model showed that by structuring model training from fundamentals to more difficult topics they were able to drastically reduce the number of parameters needed.

The ‘frontier’ models rely on scale to achieve their results but that’s not the only approach. Eventually we will hit up against the fundamental limits but we are not close with Sol and Mythos.

saberience a day ago | parent [-]

Yes they are approaching the limits, try asking smaller models niche questions about almost anything, they hallucinate massively because you cannot simply pack in all the raw knowledge from a massive frontier model into something that’s quantified down to 20GB etc.

It breaks fundamental laws of information theory. It’s like saying you can extract 100 joules of energy from 10 joules of energy source. Not possible.

Systemerror7A69 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think the assumption here that might not hold is simply that increases in efficiency and smaller size will be achieved by linearly just training smaller models better.

You are absolutely right that there is a physical limit about these things, but very often I find that the solution is a clever way to work around the problem. Maybe the problem with knowledge of the models will be improved by them looking the information up in a better way - so smaller models will not have to have the knowledge trained in but will default to checking. Maybe Models will, I dunno, focus on training in assembler and start to only ever check the compiled output so they only ever need to learn assembler and will then compile the solution to reason about the assembler code.

Obviously that last part is a ridiculous example because I'm not gonna be able to come up with a solution myself - I'm not nearly smart enough for that. But I h ope you get what I mean. Not going the direct route but instead finding solutions people didn't think of before.

fy20 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It doesn't really matter though. Hardware performance is still growing. The new Mac Studio could just about run this model locally (rather slowly) - something that sits on your desk, that you as a consumer can buy.

Imagine prosumer desktop hardware 10 years from now. The 2036 DGX Spark. For a few thousand dollars you will be able to buy something with hundreds of GB (maybe TB if manufacturers step up) of unified RAM, memory bandwidth in the 10-20TB/s range. Overall AI "compute" will increase 10-20x, while at the same time AI model capability per byte will increase 5-10x.

The hardware would fit today's models, something like Kimi K3, quite comfortably and give performance of maybe 100 tokens/second. So what needs data center hardware today will run on your desk.

But if we also assume the models become more efficient, a 2036 Fable-class model (in terms of intelligence/capabilities, not size) will easily run on this thing at hundreds of tokens per second.

Unfortunately it'll still slow to a crawl with 5 Chrome tabs open, and every Electron app will need at least 200GB of RAM.

twobitshifter a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Sounds like you are describing a quantized model which is a naive form of compression, not a model that is trained more efficiently.

Additionally the information theory angle is for information storage, but a model can access resources and tools to gain information and what we are really seeking to train is reasoning not information retrieval. We reduce the needs to the right capabilities and we don’t get upset if it does not know the lyrics to every song ever written.

computerex a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You heard of JEPA? LLM's have all sorts of garbage they have memorized. Reasoning in latent space instead of in text significantly reduces the number of needed parameters.

saberience a day ago | parent [-]

JEPA is a joke, let me know when those models do anything useful.

a day ago | parent | prev [-]
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oceansky a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Can't come soon enough!