| ▲ | dver 2 hours ago |
| It's brutal, my son with a CS degree hasn't been able to get to single live interview ina year. A couple of screens has been it. I've reached out to my network, and the reply is always we're not hiring any juniors. |
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| ▲ | georgeburdell an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| I don’t understand this logic. If I’m being honest, the most productive people with AI on my team are the two youngest. They don’t have product wisdom, yes, but the gap is so noticeable that I pushed my manager to forego the full-time work experience requirement that we have always had so that new hires don’t even know the old way of working and can just reframe the field in terms of AI. AI is the biggest threat in over a generation to seniors who aren’t investing in keeping up. Managers without an instinct for AI are an endangered species as well. |
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| ▲ | asdfman123 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | But the AI transition is different than old technological changes in that you don't really have to learn anything. You don't have to memorize keywords and new concepts like you'd have to for, say, a new JavaScript framework. If you don't know something about AI, you can just ask it and it will tell you. Basically the only hard part for old people is getting USED to using AI. Some haven't, but it only takes a few weeks to do. After that, experience and taste really comes in handy and that can't be developed overnight. | | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah that's my feeling about it. I don't code much these days so have not used AI very much in that respect, so for me it's basically a superpowered search agent that can formulate relevant answers based on the details I provide, without the "why do you want to do that" or "tell us what you're really trying to achieve" that you'd so often get on tech forums. But if I had to use AI for coding I don't think that it would take me very much time at all to get into the swing of it. I wrote code by hand for decades, so I know how to judge whether it's producing something that looks reasonable. | |
| ▲ | throw849494499 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Working with AI is like commanding team of Indian developers and testers. Nothing new, we seen this before. | | |
| ▲ | darth_avocado 14 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Why not use your actual account instead of creating a throwaway one if you feel so comfortable saying this? |
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| ▲ | NoMoreNicksLeft an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | >If you don't know something about AI, you can just ask it and it will tell you. If your questions are sharp, probing for detail, and intelligent. Have you seen how people question AIs? It's as if they can't even conceive of the AI being able to supply specific detail. | | |
| ▲ | Kim_Bruning 12 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I'd love to see examples of that! Just from debates on HN alone, I get the idea that there's huge deltas, and I'm getting really really curious. |
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| ▲ | EagnaIonat 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Depends on the nature of the work. In highly specialised work the junior would train with a senior while the senior can offload the easier work. Now the senior can use the AI instead of dealing with a junior. Plus the biggest danger I’ve seen numerous times is the junior engineer can’t easily tell if the AI is wrong. They either accept it as correct or spend more time trying to fix AI output with an AI in an area they don’t have the skills for. | |
| ▲ | elmer2 10 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | On the contrary, new generations are skipping the fundamentals and using AI instead. Seniors will become more valuable as that knowledge is lost and AI isn't capable of full replacenent. I use AI daily and it takes almost no extra brain power to use. | |
| ▲ | armcat an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Same here. The absolute star in my team is the youngest. But! I think what's happening is that the distribution in this age group has shifted. Essentially the absolute best (high IQ, super ambitious, great communicator, cracked builder types) are now even better positioned than ever before. But the majority of mass in this age category now suffers, i.e. everyone that's "good" or "very good" but not exceptional/brilliant. | |
| ▲ | seanmcdirmid an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think the problem is evaluation. They can't tell who the good juniors are with respect to the new skills that they are looking for, so they go for experience instead. It doesn't seem sustainable though for obvious reasons. > AI is the biggest threat in over a generation to seniors who aren’t investing in keeping up. Managers without an instinct for AI are an endangered species as well. New tech has always been the biggest threat to seniors who aren't investing in keeping up. | |
| ▲ | risyachka 16 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If you find a proper senior dev - it will be like 10 or more of that junior you described. Because you can’t shortcut experience. And AI multiplies that. I’ve seen what ai-focused good senior dev can do and it is scary. | |
| ▲ | stefan_ an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | The juniors I have seen don't even try to understand anymore what they are building. They don't understand the product, they don't understand the technology. So everything AI is building for them is nonsense. "Reviewing" it is impossible. Some of them think they are being extra clever having Claude process review comments for them. Even if you hire one, this way they are out the door within the month. |
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| ▲ | randycupertino an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Right now my company seems to be only hiring people they already know or have worked with before. Every single hire in the last 4 months I've seen get on-boarded has been back-channeled. I've had 4 direct referrals and none of them have gotten in but all made it to the final round just to be surpassed by someone the hiring manager already knew and liked from their previous teams. Even with a strong referral it's hard! |
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| ▲ | dver an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I had a job search as well and same. Previous slam dunks that stalled at final interviews with someone who had a higher recommendation. Fortunately I have some unique skills that allowed me to land a gig. | |
| ▲ | 33e 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Why is this? Is it partly influenced by the fact that LinkedIn etc suck? | | |
| ▲ | randycupertino 26 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I think it's trust. If you worked with someone and you know they are awesome and you are running a team you want to hire people who are known entities that you know will hit their deliverables, do a great job and won't be weird or cause friction with cross functional teams. Also of course there's always politics to navigate. I had a candidate I loved for my team who made it through 8 rounds and panel interview with strong hiring recommendations but we got overruled by our skip level who wanted to hire her friend. The interesting thing is people recommend "networking" and people think it's like... meeting people at industry events or reaching out to linkedin connections but that's not really how I see networking working in real life. The networking that actually gets people jobs is networks from people you've already worked with before, or your professor is on the board of the company or like.. your parents know the exec team really well etc. So new grads truly are disadvantaged. | |
| ▲ | HWR_14 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | A known value is worth a lot. |
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| ▲ | an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] | | |
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| ▲ | y-curious an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| We hired one junior out of maybe 10 hires. I don’t really know where to slot them in currently, as they lack the background knowledge of what is good or bad from AI. It’s a shame because years ago, I would have hired them and pointed them at a million small projects. Best of luck to your son. I wish I had advice |
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| ▲ | dver an hour ago | parent [-] | | Thanks, it's been tough on him. I'm glad we're able to support him through this, others are not as fortunate. He's looking into pivots now and taking flight lessons. | | |
| ▲ | y-curious an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Does he do any side projects? Where you can support him most is feed him some problems he can build a solution for. I think working through the pain points of building an end to end product and putting that on his resume will go far. I also would recommend he finds non-SWE jobs at companies for the time being too. I mentioned in another comment but I was a “solutions engineer” aka customer support. It was minimally technical and boring but it had plenty of time to upskill and move laterally. I am a new father to a 3 month old son. I will be nudging him to be an electrician if he has no obvious career interests. Union, good pay, endless work and lots of opportunities to do your own thing. It’s scary to even consider what the job market will look like in 22 years. | | |
| ▲ | dver 40 minutes ago | parent [-] | | He just did something that was game related and has been playing with some graphics stuff. His degree game related CS. |
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| ▲ | 8cvor6j844qw_d6 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Just curious if there's really no offer at all or offers with lowballs? I know a 2 of senior devs that got laid off from different times and one is approaching nearly a year of unemployment with no offers and another approaching half a year with few offers but elected to continue looking due the offered salary not matching their expectations. | | |
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| ▲ | A_SIGINT an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Can you give me an email to reach out to you at? My company may need an intern/Junior here soon. I'd be happy to take a look at his resume. Fully remote, Full stack .NET in addition to AI/Python/data-science work |
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| ▲ | dimaaan 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Honestly, that is way too much for a junior. I'd side-eye that list as senior .NET dev full stack. You're asking one person to do frontend/js/css, backend/databases/Redis/MQ, and Python with all that math behind data-science, but i doubt he can understand and review all of this | |
| ▲ | dver 39 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | dverespey@gmail.com is mine. In my profile as well. |
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| ▲ | Tade0 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This sounds much like the civil engineering crisis in my region of the world after the 2008 financial crisis. There was barely any new construction going on for a couple of years and once it started anew, there was a gap as while people were retiring, new hires weren't replacing them. I guess we're just going to shrink as a field until the market won't be able to handle it. |
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| ▲ | glimshe an hour ago | parent [-] | | Our field started as a niche for geeks. For a long time, CS paid you the average for engineering work - hardly equivalent to six figures today for most with the exception of seniors. It's still like that on most of the world. Many people here lived through ridiculous times. It was possible to make 1M in a year without incredible skills/hard work. Big tech was and still is full of these people. I'm not saying that was a bad thing at all, but it always felt unsustainable. CS salaries will decline and fewer people will want to be software developers, balancing the market. Then it may go back to where it came from with the geeks sticking around. No more coding bros. Maybe that's okay. When I got my degree, I never expected more than a slightly above average salary. I do this because I love it and can't imagine doing anything else. I was lucky and I'm thankful for the luck I had. | | |
| ▲ | dimaaan 20 minutes ago | parent [-] | | That resonates me. When I was in high school, I lied to girls about what I was planning to major in just so I wouldn't sound like some antisocial nerd. Nobody back then thought coding was cool.
It was just the thing the weird kids did in the computer lab. |
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| ▲ | dayvid an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There's no mercy for people learning the ropes now. The lower latency of LLMs make people impatient to deal with growing pains. |
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| ▲ | david38 26 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Agreed. My daughter with a degree in math from Berkeley served coffee and tutored for a year before being accepted into a math PhD program. Amazing |