Remix.run Logo
oblio 2 hours ago

This is a direct result of national politics.

EU member states want all the benefits of integration without giving anything up, especially things that they consider aspects of national sovereignty.

* * *

I'll give you an example.

I'm from Romania. In Romania in 1990 there were no private enterprises, so everything was state owned. There was a HUGE demand for commerce/retail, so small local businesses popped up. They were very basic because everything was brand new and expertise was extremely scarce. No one knew anything about modern supermarkets, supermarket chains, banks, loans, credit lines, basically everything related to modern market economies.

As Romanian headed for EU integration, foreign invested started... investing. In retail that meant that because Romania is fairly populous by EU standards, everyone was tempted by a potentially big and growing pie that was almost void of serious competition.

So we ended up with Lidl (German), Kaufland (German), Metro (German), Carrefour (French), Mega Image (Romanian, bought by Delhaize: Belgian), DM (German), Cora (French), Auchan (French), Profi (Romanian, bought by Delhaize: Belgian), Selgros (Swiss), Penny (bought by REWE: German), etc.

I moved abroad somewhere close to both France and Germany. At a company I worked for, I had both French and German coworkers.

At some point the Germans were talking about Kaufland and I started chatting with them about it. Some French people mentioned Auchan and I replied to that too. After a few more replies about German and French supermarket chains, one of them said: how do you know so much about both French and German supermarket chains?

And I told them:

We're right next to Germany and German supermarkets stop at the border. There is no Aldi in France. Most French people in the neighboring French towns haven't even been in an Aldi.

We're also next to France and French supermarkets stop at the border. There is no Carrefour in Germany. Most German people in the neighboring German towns haven't even been in a Carrefour.

In Romania your big companies bought everything local (or displaced it), there are hardly any locally owned stores so I guess the upside is that I know all your supermarket chains.

* * *

Repeat this for banking, IT, whatever. Europe is super economically segregated even with the EU operating. Each country has all sort of hidden protections for its local businesses. I can't really tell you what they are exactly, but in practice you can feel them. Each country has its own version of X, Y, Z businesses. Small versions of everything, instead of few really big and competitive businesses at a global level.

This even impacts US companies. You can't get a European Netflix subscription. You fly from Romania to France and when you land and connect your tablet to the internet, your Romanian Netflix account switches over to France and they delete Mad Men from your downloaded episodes because Netflix France hasn't licensed Mad Men (old example).

DanielHB 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Language, payroll-rules and tax-rules alone can be enough to prevent a business from expanding into a market. Even when there is no foul intent, just different set of rules.

I am from Brazil and it is not unusual for companies to operate only within certain states because of this. Even though Brazil is a single country with a single language and mostly federal rules about things, there is still enough variance of laws from one state to another to cause problems.

Then you hear about Canada which has tariffs between its own provinces, but not to the US. Meaning some products are cheaper across the US border than across a province border. Figuring out how much to pay in taxes alone can be a blocker...

This is not an EU-only problem, any large single market will have friction in its internal divisions. It tends to be worse in the EU because the countries have a lot more sovereignty though (enforcement agencies tend to be local, not federal for example).

soco 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

EU is for all practical means not a single market, it's a hodge-podge of rules much more integrated in theory than in practice. Which is exactly the thing causing problems here, and ironically this is exactly what the anti-EU folks complain about. Think about this disconnect: complaining about friction and requesting less integration.

oblio an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> Then you hear about Canada which has tariffs between its own provinces, but not to the US.

Canada doesn't have, and should not have, the level of ambitions the EU should have. We're talking about EU 450 million people (500+ million if the UK rejoins at some point) vs Canada 35 million.

The EU should go toe to toe with the US and China. The EU is utterly dominated by US software companies and by Chinese green tech companies (batteries, solar panels, EVs).

throw-the-towel an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I feel for you, but the points you're making seem to be contradictory. You don't like that European companies bought out Romanian ones, yet at the same time you don't like that Europe has small versions of everything for each country instead of big mega-corps like Carrefour and Aldi? Or perhaps you're OK with mega-corps, and just want some of them to be Romanian?

oblio an hour ago | parent [-]

> I feel for you, but the points you're making seem to be contradictory.

No, that is actually one of the points, I'm glad someone noticed it.

I, too, want to have my cake and eat it, too. This is a contradiction that can't easily be resolved.

I'd want Romanian sovereignty AND the convenience of big companies with lots of economic power. I guess, to your direct comment, yeah, I'd be happy enough with a few European "champions" out of hundreds being Romanian.

Personally, I lean more towards EU federalism so this cognitive dissonance is probably 30-70 towards big companies, because I think otherwise the EU will be crushed by outsiders.

sajithdilshan 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think this is true for a lot of Balkan countries that joined EU. I was in Croatia recently and was super surprised to see Lidl and DM stores there. Even more surprised to see the prices of items in those stores were almost same as in Berlin

vladvasiliu an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Don't know about Carrefour and Auchan in Germany, but there are plenty of Aldis and Lidls in France, at least in the Paris region.

tietjens 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Very interesting! Also, I would trade Aldi for Carrefour in less than a second.

ahartmetz an hour ago | parent [-]

They aren't in the same category of supermarket though.

Anyway, your name sounds Dutch. Please bring Albert Heijn to Germany. I'm not even sure why, but it's my favorite supermarket I've been to so far.

tietjens 27 minutes ago | parent [-]

That's true. I'd trade Lidl for Carrefour then. I like Albert Heijn too. It's like a successful mix of the grocery store tiers.

rjsw 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are ALDI stores in France, I don't know which ALDI without looking it up. Carrefour has stores in Italy and Spain.

oblio an hour ago | parent [-]

> Carrefour has stores in Italy and Spain.

And Auchan has stores in Spain (Alcampo).

I'm not saying that the boundary is a 20km high wall of fire nothing can go through.

I'm saying that:

1. the direction is mostly big countries -> smaller countries, and very rarely big countries -> other big countries or even rarer, smaller countries -> big countries.

2. 20+ years after the EU has started, the level of high level integration is still pitiful.

rjsw an hour ago | parent [-]

People don't want complete integration.

If I go into the Carrefour in Sallanches (FR) then I will buy a completely different set of products to those that I would buy in the Carrefour in Aosta (IT), the two are 80km apart, I have shopped in both multiple times.

I don't think the supermarket example really maps across to the subject of the linked article.

maattdd an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are a lot of Aldi in France (also Lidl, also Action (Netherlands)...) Not sure of your point.

dragochat an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

TL;DR in EU, "strong" countries protected their national companies; weaker or smaller ones didn't

=> short term gain, free profits for eg FR or DE companies being allowed to devour other smaller countrie's markets

=> big country corpos get used to "almost free lunch"

=> big EU corpos fail to innovated and become uncompetitive globally

=> US ans CN corpos try instead to come with their increased efficiency and innovation at the EU market

=> EU freaks out and throws random restrictions and fines and regulations

=> only the most aggressive and ruthless CN (Temu etc) and US companies get through

=> they mostly rape the s out of EU markets

=> EU tries to protect its markets but its institutions have been regulatorly captured

=> [dark spiral goes on and on...]