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skulk 3 hours ago

Overall, I do agree with the thesis but:

> Now… how does Sal Khan want my kid to learn?

> Watch a video.

I find this a little uncharitable. I learned a lot of math at a young age from Sal Khan's early videos (back when he used to erase by switching to a black pen and scribbling across the entire screen) and, to put it in the author's terms, it served as an easy-to-digest scaffolding on top of which to build a deeper understanding. I don't think Khanacademy ever sold itself as a magic learning resource that removes the need to work out problems yourself.

sudo_cowsay 20 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, exactly. I have also learned a lot of math, grammar, science, and other subjects from Sal. In most videos, Sal explicitly states to pause the video and try out the problem before he works through it. I do think that KA's style of teaching needs some getting used to (this was never a problem for me as it was one of my first teaching platforms). However, once you get used to it, it is a wonderful experience.

jbstack 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Side note, but much as I like Khan Academy overall, I've always struggled with Sal's slow and repetitive speaking style in the videos.

"Now you add the five ... [pause] ... add the five ... add the five to the seven ... to the seven..."

Running them at 1.5 - 2x helps a bit, but it's still annoying to the point that I find it very distracting.

sudo_cowsay 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

While it depends entirely on personal opinion, I believe that it helps significantly. It helps build up the problem/solution from the ground up and he goes through each step out loud to help a student understand. I get that some people hate it and think it is so childish for such simple steps. For other people, it helps a lot. Learning on KA works best if started aat a young age and done consistently (you get used to the style and you learn everything from the ground up).

wafflemaker 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

OTOH creating neural connections takes time. It's a real distance. Small for us, but great for the cells. That's why explaining difficult concepts too fast, while cool for people getting things instantly, is not good for general population.

teiferer 19 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I very much agree and it saddens me often when I see folks dial it up to 1.5x or 2x "because it is boring otherwise". They might think they just get as much, only in half the time, but I'd hypothesize that they retain less because the mind needs some time to digest.

Similar with the trend to auto-cut pauses that speakers make, just to cram in more text into a youtube video. Destroys not just the pacing but any chance for the mind to take its time.

I'd love to see studies about this.

jbstack 31 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

There's a difference between pacing (good), and repetitive speech (bad). Between pacing and repetitive speech.

teiferer 17 minutes ago | parent [-]

Ironically, spaced repetition is the key to successful learning.

Obviously one can overdo it. And there is variance in what people require. But not giving things time, instead giving in to the dopamine-craving, that's killing your learning abilities.

tptacek an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I originally learned linear algebra from Gilbert Strang's OCW videos, and I was only able to stick with them by 2x'ing the playback rate; at this point, hearing Strang at his normal speaking rate sounds to me like hearing him after a Robitussin bender.

homieg33 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

This is exactly what my kid said about why he doesn’t like Kahn academy.

dprkh 37 minutes ago | parent [-]

What would you recommend over khan academy?

jbstack 24 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I've not tried it myself, but I consistently hear good things about Math Academy. It uses a knowledge graph so that it knows whether you've satisfied prerequisites for a topic, and it adapts itself to your level. I've never taken the plunge because it's very expensive at $49 a month, but it seems to be the one that serious maths learners use.

I did the trial of Brilliant the other day. You can get 7 days free, then another 7 days added if you cancel the first trial before the end. After that you can continue to get 2 free lessons per day with ads. I think it's about $20 a month for unlimited lessons. The maths problems are more visual (which makes them quite intuitive) and it has a nicer, more polished UI than Khan Academy. It's easier to stay in the mood for doing more lessons. The main downsides compared to Khan are that the explanations are quite minimal (short descriptions, no videos), and it doesn't reach as advanced a level as Khan. I'm looking at it as more a way to do a refresher on the maths I already learned at school rather than a serious learning tool. If it were $5 a month I'd probably consider subbing for a couple of months and trying to blitz through all the material before switching back to Khan to fill in the gaps.

sudo_cowsay 14 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

While I am a strong supporter of KA, I just use regular schooling to review and back up what I learned on Khan.

fullshark 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't agree and the hype surrounding his efforts was something much greater than what KahnAcademy actually is (a very useful resource).

He sold his vision in "The One World Schoolhouse" which was essentially global learning via all the best videos (and one unified curriculum) you can make and teachers effectively being technicians/teaching assistants. It was the vision that utopian minded technologists craved in the early aughts.

blagie an hour ago | parent [-]

It's not a bad idea in concept, but the core problem is what he delivered was:

"essentially global learning via all the Khan videos, in math, by him, and in other subjects, by his team."

Khan Academy is 2010-era state-of-the-art for rote learning and procedural knowledge. That's a helpful resource, but as one world schoolhouse, there is:

- No room for creativity, or much of anything similar from students (outside of the fantastic JavaScript projects).

- No room for outside innovation.

- A personality cult. Any ideas MUST be attributed to Khan.

foxglacier an hour ago | parent [-]

Creativity isn't learning, it's the application of learning, and that's not what school is for. There has always been value in somebody showing you how to apply a math technique and practicing using it to solve problems. It's not creative but it gives us the skills to do useful things in the world - including creative things. Even pure rote learning (such as reciting the periodic table) is useful so you can later draw on that knowledge without interrupting your attention on the higher level thinking (such as creativity!) that you're doing.

Nebasuke an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The article is indeed uncharitable. Nowhere does the article mention the fact that there are exercises AND that you can explore the website and the different resources in the way you like. You don't even need to watch videos if you don't want to.

You also do not need to linearly follow the topics/videos. You can take a few quizzes from some topic, notice you don't understand something completely yet and instead pick up more trigonometry instead.

I've worked through Khan academy in a way similar to what the author describes as a good flow, but then all within the Khan Academy platform. The platform even allows for discussions and questions.

To me the problem is much more that motivation or a destination is not something that Khan Academy will give you. Then again, so won't most teachers. I much preferred Khan Academy over most of my math teachers, but occasionally I've had teachers who helped me love a subject I barely knew beforehand.

rhdunn 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My understanding is that the idea behind Khanacademy is to switch the classroom -- learn a topic as homework; do the questions in the classroom. That way the teacher can assess (and help) the students.

The other idea is that a student only advances to the next topic once they've mastered the current topic (e.g. by getting 4/5 questions right). The theory behind this is that if you don't understand a concept/topic then it is harder to understand topics that depend on that.

This does mean that students will be at different topics/stages. But because of the structure of the teaching a teacher isn't moving on to a new topic leaving students to fall further and further behind.

bee_rider 27 minutes ago | parent [-]

The idea of Mastery Learning seems to resurface every couple decades. I guess because it pretty appealing but requires more per-student customization; there’s always a hope that now, finally, we’ve got the tech to let everyone advance at their own pace.

IDK. Maybe some sort of RAG-on-textbook solution will let us do it.

UltraSane 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The idea is for the students to watch the videos outside of class and this frees up time for the teachers to provide individual help.