Remix.run Logo
ChrisMarshallNY 2 hours ago

One convenient fiction that many wealthy people (in the US) tell themselves, is that poor people are "lazy"; and that's why they're poor.

I know lots of folks without a pot to piss in, or a window to throw it out, and not one single one, is "lazy." In fact, a few have more than one (difficult) job.

I am old enough to see a few of them getting into the back nine, with no cushion.

I'm extremely grateful for what I have.

[EDIT] Added "many" because it's more appropriate, and short-circuits the implied "all."

tmoertel 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah, most people probably underestimate the effect that several things have on where they end up in life: education, self discipline, hard work, making good decisions, persistence, and, especially, chance. If you screw up majorly on any the factors under your control, you dramatically reduce your chances of “the good life.” But, even if you do all of them right, you are still at the mercy of chance. Get born in the wrong year or at the wrong place or into the wrong family or with the wrong genetics and that's all it takes to set you up for a hard life.

The tragedy is that we could have a society that gives people more opportunities to escape the downward pull of chance gone wrong early in life. Maybe someday we'll get there.

p-o 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The pervasive myth that hard work == wealth needs to die. Every people I have met in my life wanted to have a shot at a decent life and would have put the necessary work for a decent wage.

The word lazy should be identified as what it really is: a pejorative.

r3trohack3r 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

I think it’s self evidently true that hard work is not equal to wealth and I don’t know how that meme became a thing.

You can exert extreme effort in unproductive directions and provide marginal, even extremely negative, value.

You can work extremely hard, all day every day, and accomplish nothing.

Gulags aren’t known for their wealth or value generation. They’re known for their labor input.

gumby 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Being poor is a lot of work, as is very well documented. When you have more money you can offload some (or in extreme cases pretty much all) of the labor.

andsoitis 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> convenient fiction that wealthy people (in the US) tell themselves, is that poor people are "lazy"

just like all poor people aren't lazy, so too all wealthy people don't think this.

ChrisMarshallNY 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Never said they did. Interesting read of what I wrote…

andsoitis 2 hours ago | parent [-]

You wrote wealthy people tell themselves that poor people are lazy.

ChrisMarshallNY 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, I did. There’s a word that was inserted into what I actually wrote.

andsoitis 2 hours ago | parent [-]

By that logic, it is then accurate to say poor people are lazy.

jrflowers 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I like the transition from “I have an issue with what you said” to “I have an issue with what I imagine you said” after getting clarification

That aside the statement was fine as written. For example it takes deliberate and active misunderstanding to twist the statement “people eat meat” into “there aren’t any vegetarians”

ChrisMarshallNY 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sure. Knock yourself out. I won’t lose any sleep over it.

ysingh923 44 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

he wrote "many" wealthy people, not all.

ChrisMarshallNY 39 minutes ago | parent [-]

To be fair, I added that, after being called on it. It was a fair point, but I also didn't mean "all," so I just clarified the meaning.

cindyllm 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

Jtarii 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Some people just have a several hundred year head start on others.

Hikikomori 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Also prosperity evangelism.

teaearlgraycold an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The more money I’ve been paid the less hard I’ve had to work. Across my friends this seems to be a pretty strong trend.

jethro_tell 13 minutes ago | parent [-]

I've worked in both tech and construction. Never seen a tech worker go home and come back with the soles of their shoes resoled overnight because they didn't have a better option for work tomorrow.

Is that the best option? Generally no, it's probably not worth your time to do things that you don't specialize in. But at some point, you run out of hours to profit from the things you specialize in, and you still need something, so you figure it out. You do your oil changes, and fix your shoes and repair things even when they would generally considered 'totaled'. You miss work or at least hours on days when your late model car doesn't start. You take care of your own house repairs and yardwork, if your lucky enough to own something your landlord's yard and maintenance work more likely. And this is all off hours stuff because that's the option you have.

I've worked so much less in tech, yeah the hours can be long and oncall sucks. But I end up being able to redirect all my effort into the thing I'm specialized in and that I get paid the most to do. Which means I can pay to have my boots resoled, or just buy new ones, I take my (newer cars that always start) to the dealer every 6 months. I can pay a premium for delivery of food and staples, I can hire help around the house for anything from lawn care to tree trimming to roof repairs.

When I left the trades, 50 hours was generally required and 60 was becoming the norm. I'm not working any more in tech at work, but I work a lot lest to have a better life outside of work. It's just night and day.

fragmede an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's four quadrants, lazy, works hard on one axis, and poor and rich on the other axis. Of those four quadrants, people exist in all four of them and it's stupid to pretend otherwise. That means that not pretending lazy poor don't exist, nor that rich hardworking people also exist. I know lazy poor people that aren't lazy so much as have severe mental health problems related to being poor, but also know rich people who could have fucked off to the beach forever by now but they keep working for some reason.

Why do I bring this up? Am I nitpicking? (yes) Until such time that there are no poor people, claiming there are no lazy poor people just gets people that actually know lazy poor people to tune out anyone's dreams of UBI because I'm not paying taxes on income I earn through me working, so that everyone else can be lazy and not work. It's as simple as that. Yes we can point to systemic and racially moviated biases that lead to unequal outcomes, but that isn't convincing on why my tax dollars should go to lazy poor people who refuse to work or even go to the EBT office to. I'm all for my tax dollars going to hard working poor people, and especially to their health care because a cancer or diabetes diagnosis should not bankrupt anyone, but the rest is hard to swallow.

slowin an hour ago | parent [-]

Your tax dollars go to all kinds of things far worse than helping people survive. The Protestant work ethic cannot die soon enough. Never once have I cared if someone is "lazy". A rich person may work very hard exploiting others, that's far worse than not working at all.

I feel like even a lot of atheists get trapped in this Protestant mindset because we've been raised in this environment (like a fish trying to detect water), but if you think it through you'll see it doesn't actually make sense. Especially under capitalism.

loeg 30 minutes ago | parent [-]

Something like 90% of my tax dollars go to social security net programs.

ChrisMarshallNY 28 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Not 90%[0].

Social Security is kind of a "zero-sum gain," if you believe people, because we are supposedly being paid back what we spent a lifetime, having withdrawn from our wages.

[0] https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/feder...

slowin 20 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Not if you're in the US. Social security is ~22% https://govbase.com/blog/where-your-tax-dollars-go

zer0x4d 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not lazy, smart -> Likely to become a millionaire

Not lazy, not smart -> Will probably make ends meet, but not a millionaire

Lazy, samrt -> Toss-up. Can either make it far or end up broke

Lazy, not smart -> Likely to be broke

fcarraldo 28 minutes ago | parent [-]

Not factual

userbinator 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's not "lazy"; it's "made the wrong choices"... which I suppose you could call "intellectually lazy".

dagss 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I'm trying hard to make your post make any sense at all..

I guess you believe everyone gets the same starting point and same opportunities? How did you come to believe such a thing? Have you looked around to see what society is like?

kajman an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It only makes sense that fetuses which choose to be born into blue collar families in the wrong zip code are more likely to continue to make poor decisions for the rest of their lives. You just can't trust people with such a poor history of judgement. Unless they're C-Suite.

ChrisMarshallNY 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Or… were never given a choice/opportunity…

bagxrvxpepzn 39 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> One convenient fiction that many wealthy people (in the US) tell themselves, is that poor people are "lazy"; and that's why they're poor.

If they aren't physically lazy, they're unambitious or refuse to attempt nominally mentally difficult things (like math) and that is mental laziness. Poverty isn't random.

ChrisMarshallNY 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

> Poverty isn't random.

Now you're just trolling. Be nice.

bagxrvxpepzn 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

Making neutral statements in concordance with reality is the nicest thing you can do for a reader.