This is the way. If the US imposes tariffs, impose tariffs on US goods.

The US administration twists facts to suit their agenda. For example, they often complain about the trade deficit the US has with other countries. However, that deficit often (depends on the country) only exists if you exclude digital goods (Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc.).

If the rest of the world were to restrict the import of those digital goods, in the interest of fairness, the tech lobbyists would swarm D.C. in panic.

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bad_haircut72 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Europe/Canada should ban chatgpt/anthropic and say "ok we will use chinese models for our vibe coding I guess" and watch the stock market implode overnight. Remenber when they tried to ban non-US citizens from using Fable? best to remove that sword of damocles now regardless

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627467 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This has always been an option pre-AI (block MS, block Google, etc). They never done that before why would they do that now?

	▲	consp 2 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		The examples you provide are way more integrated into governments and organizations. LLMs are not even in the same country let alone postal code.
	▲	notahacker 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		The US wasn't, for the most part, treating them as an adversary before
	▲	morkalork 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Because they were allies and not in economic war before?

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hackable_sand 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Heads up, you would want to keep the sword of damocles in that case, no matter how illusory.

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ericmay 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Good luck with the Chinese models I’d say. Next they’ll be using Russian ones just because they hate Trump so much haha.

It feels good to say things like the EU and Canada should just ban whatever, but the US can just ban imports of critical goods from Europe too and harm European industries (I’m not in favor of this but it’s certainly an option).

So if the EU can cozy up to China, well we can drop the whole Taiwan issue and cozy up to China too. If Europeans don’t care about democracy in Taiwan maybe we shouldn’t either. Oh and by the way, China is helping Russia prosecute its war against Ukraine (just like Iran and North Korea) but I guess Trump sent some mean tweets so NATO is over, all the alliances are over, the EU and Canada will cozy up to China, and ban all American products. Things that can be easily discarded by both sides aren’t worth much.

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bad_haircut72 2 hours ago | parent [-]

the advantage US labs have is that we use them. If chinese labs got 1 years worth of usage from everyone else as their daily driver, they would catchup if not overtake the US based firms - assuming you even think that they're truly behind anyway.

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ericmay 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Ok. Don’t use them and then we’ll just leverage China’s models too. What’s the problem? Why does the US need to lead in AI if Europe (and everyone else) prefers to partner with China? We can just partner with them too. They can have Taiwan. We can pull out of NATO and bring our troops home from overseas bases around the world. It’ll save us a lot of military spend and then we don’t have to play these games anymore.

Besides we can just distill Chinese modules and release open weights like they do now.

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bad_haircut72 an hour ago | parent [-]

I mean this would be great haha, America voluntarily ceding its position as the supreme global power without bloodshed. Its the best we could hope for. Now watch the US show that this is the one course they will never take.

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ericmay 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

Well it's unlikely we'd voluntarily cede it, but in the event that we do so, Russia dominates Europe, Iran dominates the Middle East, and China takes over Taiwan and shares dominance with the US in the Pacific.

Of course the US not going to war over these areas may not shed American lives, but I think it would be immature to suggest that European, Saudi, Taiwanese, or other blood wouldn't be spilt in war. For example as we cede our supreme global power without bloodshed, as you prefer, we would obviously withdraw from NATO and move all US forces from Europe (except maybe the UK) and so Russia would then mobilize forces, attack the Baltics, and so forth. But I guess if that's the best you'd hope for that's on you - I'm surprised you are aligned so closely with MAGA foreign policy but you find all sorts of viewpoints on the internet.

By the way, isn't Germany losing 10,000 manufacturing jobs per month? I hope Europeans enjoy further ceding economic power to them and losing industrial capacity.

I'd generally rather be number 1, but hey being number 2 with roughly the same standard of living, a lot less expenses and criticism, and less hatred seems OK to me.

	▲	bad_haircut72 29 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Im anti MAGA because it was obvious from the beginning it was a pack of lies. He ran on "no news wars" and then started one. Ad nauseum. There no point debating policy with the Mafia who are taking over your block. If it were about policy, yes I do think Im actually pretty aligned with what average Anerican voters want. The important thing when dealing with Americans is to pay no attention to what they say as that is all "PR", you only need to observe what they do. Most Americans dont know this even about themselves, which is why they end up with a guy like Donald Trump

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luckyjajj 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ironically Canada’s trade deficit with the USA is largely due to our oil exports.

Remove that the trade is fairly balanced.

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carefulfungi an hour ago | parent [-]

Why is this ironic? I see this point a lot but don’t understand the underlying reasoning for why it is a meaningful rebuttal?

It’s insane that the US administration (said as an American) doesn’t continue to treasure a values-aligned, peaceful, stable, independent neighbor along a massive unprotected border.

But I don’t understand this energy carve-out argument.

	▲	luckyjajj 27 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Expectation is that Canada should have a balanced trade with the USA. The reality is that Canada will always have a trade deficit because of oil exports to the USA, especially now when the USA needs it the most. That is the ironic part.
	▲	joshlemer an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		True. And if you’re going to carve out oil sold to the us, shouldn’t you be carving out resources sold to Canada? Seems like a lopsided comparison

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peterbecich 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Agreeing with your larger point but on the other hand, Trump-voting districts with older industries probably have trade deficits, both with other American districts and especially internationally.

	▲	angulardragon03 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Yeah but this is the point, right? The guy thinks the US is still living in an era before it became a massive service economy