| ▲ | pizzly 2 hours ago |
| As software, creative works, science, etc become more and more contributed via AI does that mean all future works will not be copyrighted or patented? Under our current copyright culture and laws obviously not but that does open the question to how much does a human have to contribute and what evidence is required to show that a human contributed enough so that it can be copyrighted and patented. Some time in the future (may be many years) science may become to complicated for humans to understand fully with AI systems researching themselves. Current patent laws in many places including US says inventions created entirely by artificial intelligence cannot be patented. This future may be coming. What will the new copyright and patent laws look like in the future? Do we need copyrights and patents anymore? |
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| ▲ | raincole 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| It means as long as you can find a few employees who testify that they made "creative input" during the process and nobody can disprove that, you're fine. It's like things that are already in public domain. Even if you make a coloring book out of paintings in public domain, it doesn't necessarily mean others can just print your book as-is. |
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| ▲ | unknownfuture 33 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > It means as long as you can find a few employees who testify that they made "creative input" during the process and nobody can disprove that, you're fine. Have you been involved in copyright or patent litigation? Because it's not that easy. | | |
| ▲ | raincole 11 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It's usually easier than that, as one by default hold the copyright of their works. Typically a company doesn't need to provide the whole working process and files to the court to claim copyright over their published products / to accuse pirates for violation. If you're on the defendant side of a copyright violation case, it's extremely hard to use "well the original author didn't really make it...* as a defense. (Patent cases are often defended with this argument though, as a patent grants far boarder protection than copyright and can be rejected on prior art. But still it's very different from "AI made this actually.") |
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| ▲ | asdfsa32 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You can blame the governments for all sort of inefficiencies but any operation that impacts taxes runs a tight ship in most developed nations, this include things like copyright law, census, and anything statistics. If companies get slope with creative output to the point that "a few employees" can reproduce it in shadow markets, don't expect to get copyright protection without giving governments revenue and speech-control. | |
| ▲ | pizzly 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Perhaps but what about individual works done not via a company. Say you are a author and someone falsely detects a AI watermark in your book. Is the testimony you provide enough to override that falsely detected AI watermark? My feeling is that there will be an industry that arises that proves you contributed to the works you want copyrighted. | | |
| ▲ | raincole 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | (I think) the case depends on what AI watermarks are. As far as I know, things like SynthID has practically zero false positives. | | |
| ▲ | pizzly 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | My understanding is that you get back a percentage from SynthID regarding how confident it thinks the text is generated by AI or not. The question is what percentage would be considered undeniable that it is AI generated or require more than just your testimony to prove that you actually did the work yourself. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-08025-4 (Google Deepmind) was using a "Watermark detectability is measured using the true-positive rate (TPR) when the false-positive rate (FPR) is set to 1%" for instance in their research paper. This 1% was set arbitrary just for the research paper but what percentage should it be set to? |
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| ▲ | Obscurity4340 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Like being an executive producer |
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| ▲ | 0x20cowboy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| "Content that is entirely generated by artificial intelligence is not protected by copyright." If that is faithful reading of the law, that makes sense. I know a number of people who use AI, but none of them (that are making anything actually useful) have the output "entirely generated" (aside from some POC tests that never see the light of day). I have a hard time believing anything of value, anything worth copyrighting, could be entirely generated by AI. |
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| ▲ | spudlyo an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > I have a hard time believing anything of value, anything worth copyrighting, could be entirely generated by AI. Perhaps you're not stretching your imagination enough. What if an expert novelist used an AI like it were a fancy auto-completing dictation machine to write the next great American novel? AI may have "entirely generated" all the text, but what if they micromanaged the shit out it? I can imagine the difference between someone who fires off a lazy 5 minute prompt, and someone who labors for months and months to get exactly the results they want. | |
| ▲ | rackp 8 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | Eridrus 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is less relevant for logos & creative works, but things that enable companies to do production will go back to being closely guarded and sharded secrets, which is what the patent system was trying to resolve (though we can certainly argue the success of it). If companies fail to protect their investments in generating IP, they will stop investing in generating it. And unless IP generation costs (all in, including the humans telling them what to generate) fall close to zero, it will be bad for the world if companies cannot recoup investments in generating new IP. We would expect this to hit those industries relying on IP protections the most, e.g. pharma. |
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| ▲ | sva_ 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Content that is entirely generated [...] Take note of the qualifier entirely. If you're working with an agent steering it to produce the results you want, it would be an entirely different story. |
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| ▲ | pizzly 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Wheres the limit. Would a prompt "Create a system that does x" and no other feedback count? Or do need to do 10 prompts to steer your agent to the results you want. What about just 1 additional prompt. Somewhere there will be a line. | | |
| ▲ | oblio 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Legal systems are fuzzy. The limit will be what courtrooms decide. There will never be a ">75% of content" law, everything will be left to interpretation, laws are not source code. |
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| ▲ | koolala 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Is working with an agent different than constantly editing an image with fine tuning prompts? Both can be entirely generated. | |
| ▲ | colordrops 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Where is this qualification in the legal language? | | |
| ▲ | _aavaa_ 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Where is the legal language? | | |
| ▲ | colordrops an hour ago | parent [-] | | Exactly, I don't know how the person I was replying to was making such confident statements about the situation. |
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| ▲ | dev1ycan 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Why would copyright and patents exist when the US blatantly stole the entire world's knowledge to train their AI models (and China distillled from it) |
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| ▲ | benjismith 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Knowledge cannot be "stolen" | | |
| ▲ | harimau777 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I think that you might be taking "knowledge" too literally. As I read it, the parent's post was using "knowledge" poetically for the various works that AI companies stole. | |
| ▲ | sebastiennight an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What about art? | |
| ▲ | sebastiennight 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You wrote your house's security code on a Post-It note. Somebody came in as a houseparty guest and located the note, and discretely copied it onto their hand to get access to the house during your next vacation. Which verb would describe their knowledge of this security code? | | |
| ▲ | dbetteridge 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Obtained, read, viewed, learned, discovered. The knowledge wasn't obtained illegally or illicitly, immorally perhaps. Illegal entry/trespass is a crime regardless of the method used however. In your analogy copying the code (online content) isn't necessarily illegal, however using that knowledge without compensation, permission or attribution may be a crime (depending on copyright law, judges rulings etc). | | | |
| ▲ | gruez 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | "eavesdropped"? "spied"? Whatever it is, slapping "steal" on it because what was done is wrong, and stealing is wrong, is the same sloppy logic that the copyright lobby used in the 80s/90s. | | | |
| ▲ | koolala 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The crime there is using that knowledge illegally to break in. | |
| ▲ | mitaphane 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | learned | | |
| ▲ | sebastiennight an hour ago | parent [-] | | After a bit of thinking, I agree that "learned" is the most appropriate. I stand corrected. |
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| ▲ | qotgalaxy 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
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